KID players: How Do I Play the Opening?

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EnragedSanta

I find the King's Indian Defense really interesting, and I want to start using it in my games, but I can't. I'm just so horrible with it. As of now, I've been mainly playing the classical QGD in my games, but I'm finding it too passive. I want to learn the King's Indian to replace it, but I just can't make it work.

I've heard all this amazing stuff about the opening about how it is extremely dynamic and aggressive, but it never works out when I play it. The opening just represents a completely different way of playing chess that I'm unable to grasp. When I've tried using it, my opponents always completely crush me after getting a massive pawn center with moves like d4, e4. c4. and f4.

The opening books always say stuff about attacking white's over-extended center, but how do you do that exactly? How do you deal with moves like d5 and e5 where your knights are forced to move? How do you control the center in a hypermodernist fashion? One other big issue is that I'm just completely at a loss for what to do when my opponent makes a move that isn't in the opening book. Generally, with openings like 1. d4 or 1. e4, I still feel comfortable when my opponent deviates, because I can just make sensible developing moves and maneuver towards a playable middlegame. However, it's drastically different when you find all of your pieces on the third rank and you can hardly make a move.

I would be very grateful if someone could answer these questions, help me understand the KID better in general, and give me some tips on how I should go about studying it exactly. I apologize in advance  for how long-winded this post turned out to be, but I'm legitimately interested and it makes me sad that I play it so badly.

llamonade

Like the pirc, a lot of new players are attracted to it because it's practically impossible to lose in the first 10 moves, but as you're finding out the price you pay is a much more difficult middlegame.

White has multiple good ways to play against it, some of which lead to completely different middlegames. If that didn't make it hard enough to give general advice, some lines are sharp, and in those lines calculation and memorization are more important than general considerations.

If you want to learn it, my advice is after every game you play it, go look up 3 GM games and play over them. Don't try to analyze every move as that's a waste of time. Just make general notes like what side of the board the players played on (kingside, center, or queenside), and in general how they did it (pieces, pawns, and common maneuvers). After you've seen a few hundred games you'll have some good intuition.

my137thaccount
EnragedSanta wrote:

I find the King's Indian Defense really interesting, and I want to start using it in my games, but I can't. I'm just so horrible with it. As of now, I've been mainly playing the classical QGD in my games, but I'm finding it too passive. I want to learn the King's Indian to replace it, but I just can't make it work.

I've heard all this amazing stuff about the opening about how it is extremely dynamic and aggressive, but it never works out when I play it. The opening just represents a completely different way of playing chess that I'm unable to grasp. When I've tried using it, my opponents always completely crush me after getting a massive pawn center with moves like d4, e4. c4. and f4.

The opening books always say stuff about attacking white's over-extended center, but how do you do that exactly? How do you deal with moves like d5 and e5 where your knights are forced to move? How do you control the center in a hypermodernist fashion? One other big issue is that I'm just completely at a loss for what to do when my opponent makes a move that isn't in the opening book. Generally, with openings like 1. d4 or 1. e4, I still feel comfortable when my opponent deviates, because I can just make sensible developing moves and maneuver towards a playable middlegame. However, it's drastically different when you find all of your pieces on the third rank and you can hardly make a move.

I would be very grateful if someone could answer these questions, help me understand the KID better in general, and give me some tips on how I should go about studying it exactly. I apologize in advance  for how long-winded this post turned out to be, but I'm legitimately interested and it makes me sad that I play it so badly.

All the points you mentioned in your post are the reasons why the KID is not a good idea, there's no way someone in one forum post or some book or video could completely resolve these problems for you. The dynamism of the KID is somewhat overstated I think - there are a lot of lines where you have to defend a slightly uncomfortable position for a while before having attacking chances. For example one line I've been experimenting with for white and which GM Boris Avrukh has done some analysis on is a line in which white plays Be2 then Be3, followed by g4 to lock up black's kingside ambitions, and then expanding on the queenside. Stuff like this is psychologically problematic for the people who took up the KID because they wanted to play attacking chess, but it's only natural as black voluntarily gives white the centre. If you're looking for an attacking opening I would recommend the Semi-Slav instead, where if white wants the big centre, he has to give up a pawn to get it.

OldPatzerMike

Learning the KID is a very ambitious undertaking. If you're intent on doing so, a good starting point would be "Mastering the King's Indian Defense" by Robert Bellin and Pietro Ponzetto. Instead of endless variations, it describes how to play the main pawn structures that arise in the KID. It's a small book, and after finishing it you will be ready for more detailed study.

The book is out of print, so it's a bit pricey. Used copies can be had from Amazon or AbeBooks for about $25.

dpcarballo

At your current skill level, you don't really have to memorize all that much. There are three main plans:

A ...c5 break with further queenside and center attach

An ...e5 break that leads to a closed position. Then it is time for all the other guys in the kingside to join the party and play ...f5-f4, ...g5 and so on.

An ...e5 break that leads to a dxe5 or ...exd4 trade in the center. This is similar to some 1.e4 e5 positions (same pawn structure as the Scotch and some Spanish games, but with an extra c4 by White)

 

Master the pawn structures resulting from these three opening plans. Once you know them, the theory will just feel "natural" and you won't have to rely that much on memory. Blitz games are a good place to train!

realGazebo

Same here. The King's Indian Defense makes absolutely zero sense to me, unless you get mainline, which never happens at my rating. It absolutely boggles me that so many IM and GM level players recommend this opening to beginners. I've tried playing it for a while, and it is one of the least intuitive openings I've played. These IM and GM level players never address big center plays from white in their videos either. My current lack of success with this defense makes me wonder how it's ever viable at the top level. 

tygxc

#1

"I've been mainly playing the classical QGD in my games, but I'm finding it too passive."
++ Some variations of the Queen's Gambit Declined are a bit passive, some are not.

"it is extremely dynamic and aggressive" ++ Yes it is, but it is also extremely risky for black. 'King's Indian Defence is riskier for black than King's Gambit for white' - Bronstein

"a completely different way of playing chess that I'm unable to grasp" ++ It is hard to grasp

"completely crush me after getting a massive pawn center with moves like d4, e4. c4. and f4"
++ You have to play accurately to survive. 

"how do you do that exactly?" ++ Here is an example:
https://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1008397

"How do you deal with moves like d5 and e5 where your knights are forced to move?"
++ The knights move, but then the right pawn move does it.

"How do you control the center in a hypermodernist fashion?" ++ Mainly Bg7 and e5

"what to do when my opponent makes a move that isn't in the opening book" ++ Think

"I can just make sensible developing moves and maneuver towards a playable middlegame"
++ King's Indian Defence is not natural, it is unforgiving and good moves are hard to find.

"all of your pieces on the third rank and you can hardly make a move"
++ One miss and you lose.

"how I should go about studying it"
++ From annotated grandmaster games: Bronstein, Geller, Fischer, Kasparov, Radjabov
A good book is "Zürich 1953" - Bronstein

blueemu

Have you tried playing the King's Indian Attack as White?

This can give you experience with very similar central formations (but with the colors reversed, of course) and involves less risk because as White you start with an extra move.

blueemu
EnragedSanta wrote:

... I can just make sensible developing moves and maneuver towards a playable middlegame...

This might be part of the problem.

The King's Indian Defense isn't ABOUT making sensible developing moves. It's about putting your pieces on squares from which they can support active play. That might involve retreating already-developed pieces to the back rank.

Try this... I'm playing Black against a Titled player:

 

FarBalancedPanda

I haven’t played any KID games yet sad.png

yvesrything_funky

If you don't know KID theory you might find it more passive that QGD.

yvesrything_funky

Knowing theory is important, QGD theory is centre oriented on the other hand KID theory is much more complex and based on counterattack.

FarBalancedPanda
blueemu wrote:
EnragedSanta wrote:

... I can just make sensible developing moves and maneuver towards a playable middlegame...

This might be part of the problem.

The King's Indian Defense isn't ABOUT making sensible developing moves. It's about putting your pieces on squares from which they can support active play. That might involve retreating already-developed pieces to the back rank.

Try this... I'm playing Black against a Titled player:

ktperera
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Sea_TurtIe

personally if you dont like being suffocated to death in a queenside attack play like this

sure whites structure is very good but you have the strong, active bishop and can get counterplay on the e file and queenside

Sea_TurtIe

but theres an alternative, you give white a huge pawn center then you can pick at it with pawns moves, which really puts whtie under pressure