king’s indian attack

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ykshendra
This was my position after few moves what should i’ve done when he pushed f5?
I pushed e4 after the move f5
GMegasDoux

[Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "????.??.??"] [White "?"] [Black "?"] [Round "?"] [Result "*"] 1. Nf3 Nc6 2. g3 e5 3. d3 f5 4. c4 e4 5. dxe4 fxe4 6. Ng5 Bb4+ 7. Nc3 Bxc3+ 8. bxc3 Qe7 9. Bg2 Nf6 10. Qc2 O-O 11. Nxe4 Nxe4 12. Qxe4 Qxe4 13. Bxe4 Ne5 14. Bf4 Re8 15. f3 c6 16. Bxe5 Rxe5 17. Kf2 * Essentially, white is sacrificing a pawn to damage your structure and get you out of opening book, you can ignore the attack as Ng5 would allow you to pick up the loose pawn. This example shows how white can win the pawn by attacking more times than black can defend it. White has more advanced position, and you are in an endgame. If black keeps the queens on the board you are in a middle game with an endgame looming.

ThrillerFan

The Kings Indian Attack is not always good, and it is not very good here. Black is already slightly better.

The KIA is only effective when Black has played e6, hemming in the light-squared Bishop. So like, 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d3, or 1.Nf3 e6 (or 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 e6). Without this e6 move by Black, the KIA is ineffective. With the Nf3 move order, if they don't play an early e6, you best better play something like c4 or d4.

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 is the Symmetrical English - many do this to avoid 1.c4 e5 lines.

1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 and now what Black does often decides White's course of play, whether he plays c4, d4, or d3 preparing e4. The last, again, only works if the LSB is hemmed in with ...e6.

1.Nf3 Nc6 White's only effective moves are to transpose to another opening. 2.e4 e5 is a double king pawn opening. 2.d4 d5 is the Chigorin Defense. 2.c4 e5 is the 1.c4 e5 English.

This is a common misconception by amateur players. They think you can play an opening as a system, and use it against anything, when in reality, that is never the case. You will get terrible positions if you use it outside of what it is intended to take advantage of. For example, there are many openings that rely of Black's LSB being blocked behind the pawn chain, where if it is outside the pawn chain, White's opening is a failure. These openings include:

1) King's Indian Attack - If the Bishop is not blocked, White must be willing to resort to c4, d4, or in some cases a transposition to a KP opening.

2) Colle System - After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3, after 3...e6, the Colle is fine. After 3...Bf5 or 3...Bg4, literally called the Anti-Colle, White's only good move is 4.c4, which after 4...c6, you are in a slow Slav.

3) Catalan - 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 or 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 are effective. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 is not.

4) French Defense - Lines like the Milner Barry Gambit and other lines with an active LSB are effective because Black's countering piece, the Bishop on c8, is behind the pawn chain and cannot cover the light squares near the king.

AngryPuffer

if they play Nc6 after 1.Nf3, then punish it correctly and play 2.d4

ykshendra
ThrillerFan wrote:

The Kings Indian Attack is not always good, and it is not very good here. Black is already slightly better.

The KIA is only effective when Black has played e6, hemming in the light-squared Bishop. So like, 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d3, or 1.Nf3 e6 (or 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 e6). Without this e6 move by Black, the KIA is ineffective. With the Nf3 move order, if they don't play an early e6, you best better play something like c4 or d4.

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 is the Symmetrical English - many do this to avoid 1.c4 e5 lines.

1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 and now what Black does often decides White's course of play, whether he plays c4, d4, or d3 preparing e4. The last, again, only works if the LSB is hemmed in with ...e6.

1.Nf3 Nc6 White's only effective moves are to transpose to another opening. 2.e4 e5 is a double king pawn opening. 2.d4 d5 is the Chigorin Defense. 2.c4 e5 is the 1.c4 e5 English.

This is a common misconception by amateur players. They think you can play an opening as a system, and use it against anything, when in reality, that is never the case. You will get terrible positions if you use it outside of what it is intended to take advantage of. For example, there are many openings that rely of Black's LSB being blocked behind the pawn chain, where if it is outside the pawn chain, White's opening is a failure. These openings include:

1) King's Indian Attack - If the Bishop is not blocked, White must be willing to resort to c4, d4, or in some cases a transposition to a KP opening.

2) Colle System - After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3, after 3...e6, the Colle is fine. After 3...Bf5 or 3...Bg4, literally called the Anti-Colle, White's only good move is 4.c4, which after 4...c6, you are in a slow Slav.

3) Catalan - 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 or 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 are effective. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 is not.

4) French Defense - Lines like the Milner Barry Gambit and other lines with an active LSB are effective because Black's countering piece, the Bishop on c8, is behind the pawn chain and cannot cover the light squares near the king.

Thanks for the explanation it was helpful do you have any suggestions for openings as white that’s similar to KIA or something resulting in closed positions?

ykshendra
GMegasDoux wrote:

[Event "?"] [Site "?"] [Date "????.??.??"] [White "?"] [Black "?"] [Round "?"] [Result "*"] 1. Nf3 Nc6 2. g3 e5 3. d3 f5 4. c4 e4 5. dxe4 fxe4 6. Ng5 Bb4+ 7. Nc3 Bxc3+ 8. bxc3 Qe7 9. Bg2 Nf6 10. Qc2 O-O 11. Nxe4 Nxe4 12. Qxe4 Qxe4 13. Bxe4 Ne5 14. Bf4 Re8 15. f3 c6 16. Bxe5 Rxe5 17. Kf2 * Essentially, white is sacrificing a pawn to damage your structure and get you out of opening book, you can ignore the attack as Ng5 would allow you to pick up the loose pawn. This example shows how white can win the pawn by attacking more times than black can defend it. White has more advanced position, and you are in an endgame. If black keeps the queens on the board you are in a middle game with an endgame looming.

I played as white (KIA)

I won , but had some trouble with the opening

ykshendra
AngryPuffer wrote:

if they play Nc6 after 1.Nf3, then punish it correctly and play 2.d4

Because i followed the standard KIA opening

was that bad?

AngryPuffer
marinnkitagawa wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:

if they play Nc6 after 1.Nf3, then punish it correctly and play 2.d4

Because i followed the standard KIA opening

what?

was that bad?

yes

ykshendra
AngryPuffer wrote:
marinnkitagawa wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:

if they play Nc6 after 1.Nf3, then punish it correctly and play 2.d4

Because i followed the standard KIA opening

what?

KINGS INDIAN ATTACK

was that bad?

yes

AngryPuffer
marinnkitagawa wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:
marinnkitagawa wrote:
AngryPuffer wrote:

if they play Nc6 after 1.Nf3, then punish it correctly and play 2.d4

Because i followed the standard KIA opening

what?

KINGS INDIAN ATTACK

was that bad?

yes

you started a sentence with ¨Because¨ and there was no way to tell if you were making a statement or asking a question

ThrillerFan
marinnkitagawa wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

The Kings Indian Attack is not always good, and it is not very good here. Black is already slightly better.

The KIA is only effective when Black has played e6, hemming in the light-squared Bishop. So like, 1.e4 e6 2.d3 d5 3.Nd2, 1.e4 c5 2.Nf3 e6 3.d3, or 1.Nf3 e6 (or 1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 e6). Without this e6 move by Black, the KIA is ineffective. With the Nf3 move order, if they don't play an early e6, you best better play something like c4 or d4.

1.Nf3 c5 2.c4 is the Symmetrical English - many do this to avoid 1.c4 e5 lines.

1.Nf3 d5 2.g3 and now what Black does often decides White's course of play, whether he plays c4, d4, or d3 preparing e4. The last, again, only works if the LSB is hemmed in with ...e6.

1.Nf3 Nc6 White's only effective moves are to transpose to another opening. 2.e4 e5 is a double king pawn opening. 2.d4 d5 is the Chigorin Defense. 2.c4 e5 is the 1.c4 e5 English.

This is a common misconception by amateur players. They think you can play an opening as a system, and use it against anything, when in reality, that is never the case. You will get terrible positions if you use it outside of what it is intended to take advantage of. For example, there are many openings that rely of Black's LSB being blocked behind the pawn chain, where if it is outside the pawn chain, White's opening is a failure. These openings include:

1) King's Indian Attack - If the Bishop is not blocked, White must be willing to resort to c4, d4, or in some cases a transposition to a KP opening.

2) Colle System - After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3, after 3...e6, the Colle is fine. After 3...Bf5 or 3...Bg4, literally called the Anti-Colle, White's only good move is 4.c4, which after 4...c6, you are in a slow Slav.

3) Catalan - 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.g3 or 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 are effective. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.g3 is not.

4) French Defense - Lines like the Milner Barry Gambit and other lines with an active LSB are effective because Black's countering piece, the Bishop on c8, is behind the pawn chain and cannot cover the light squares near the king.

Thanks for the explanation it was helpful do you have any suggestions for openings as white that’s similar to KIA or something resulting in closed positions?

You cannot always force a closed position, no matter what openings you play.

I have been a long time French player. Well known for it's closed positions in the main line Winawer and advance, but then you have the Tarrasch and Exchange that are more open.

The Kings Indian Defense is an opening I played for about a decade. The well known Classical and Petrosian lines are closed, but then you have the 4 pawns attack, which is WIDE open.

The Nimzo-Indian can wind up closed (Huebner) or open (4.f3 lines)

You cannot force feed a specific type of position. You need to adapt to various types of positions and merely avoid what is your absolute worst. Like in my case, I avoid the Grunfeld at all cost. I mostly play 1.b4, but with 1.c4 or 1.Nf3, I'll play an anti-grunfeld. 1.d4, if they don't play 1...d5, I don't play 2.c4. Against say, 1...Nf6, I will go Trompowsky or Torre or 3.c4 if 2...d5. You won't see a Grunfeld on my board with me as White or Black in a very long time, if ever again!

Learn the 5 types of pawn center - Closed, Mobile, Static, Open, and Dynamic. In most cases, you can avoid one of the five completely. I avoid the mobile center, which is mostly Alekhine and Grunfeld. But I do deal with the other 4.

You kind of have to think the same way!