King's indian like defense against 1.e4

As white I can play KIA which I have lately adopted, what would be the most king's indian like defense against 1.e4? Would it be something like the Pirc, Modern or something like that. Please help me find a good defense against 1.e4.

No, the Pirc/Modern and the King's Indian Defense are nothing alike!  Just because Black fianchettos a Bishop in both doesn't make the play similar.  There are 32 pieces, not 16.

Your best bet is the French Defense.  Like the King's Indian (which I play both in OTB tournaments - KID and French), you get a blocked center more often than not, and just like in the King's Indian, the pawn pointing theory comes into play.

When the center is completely blocked, look to see which way the blocked pawns are pointing.  That's the side you should be attacking.

So, for example, in the Classical KID, the blocked center sees the White pawns pointing towards the Queenside and the Black pawns point toward the Kingside.  Therefore, Black attacks Kingside and White attacks Queenside.

If you look at the French, it's the same concept, except in this case, it is Black that's attacking Queenside and White Kingside.

ThrillerFan,

I used to play the French with good success as well but I feel that it is not that much like the KID. For me what characterizes the KID is the king side pawn storm and the importance of the queen's bishop. Why do you say the Modern is not a good bet?

I can't help you then.  There is no Kingside Pawn Storm opening against 1.e4.

You've got the wrong basis for comparing openings.  The type of center is what you should be using to compare openings.  For example:

The Closed Center - King's Indian and French

The Static Center - Queen's Gambit Declined and Ruy Lopez

The Mobile Center - Grunfeld and Alekhine

The Dynamic Center - Nimzo-Indian and Sicilian

The Open Center - 1.e4 e5 Non-Ruy Lopez and there isn't really one for d4.

Of course, the openings are not that cut and dry.  A French can lead to an open center, for instance, but those are the most common for each of the 5 types of pawn center.

As for your question on the Modern, the Modern does not lead to a Kingside pawn storm at all, not even one iota!  If anything, Black's attack is on the Queenside as the Bishop is not blocked like it is in the King's Indian and tends to rake down the Queenside.

Again, compare openings by the nature of the center, not by what a few specific pawns or one piece does!

And also, what characterizes the French, especially lines like the Steintiz, is the importance of the Black Knights and the Queenside pawn Storm with White's King castled long!  How is that different than the classical King's Indian where Black storms the pawns on the side the White King is on?

i.e. 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e5 Nfd7 5.f4 c5 6.Nf3 Nc6 7.Be3 a6 8.Qd2 b5 and then here White has options, like 9.dxc5 or other ideas not even considering trying to stop Black's pawn storm and focusing on the Kingside.  Black will often play ...b4 fairly early!

Uzay Altay,

I am looking for openings where I can adopt a piece set up and plan independently of my opponents reaction. Hence I am looking for hypermodern openings. I like the French but hate the Exchange variation. I like the Sicilian but hate facing the Grand Prix Attack, Closed Sicilian and other side lines.

Yes, I definitely like the Modern. I just played a few games and liked it. I will have to get a book on it. Which one would you suggest?

KID players have often paired their choice with the Sicilian, like Fischer and Kasparov. As has been said black doesn't have the luxury of deciding where to play after 1e4, or for that matter 1d4. The stereotypical king side assault that black gets in the KID exists because white seeks to crush black on the queenside. By the same token, in some instances the Sicilian player attacks on the kingside. Chess is about winning and not chasing some aesthetic sacrificial attack on the king - but of course that is often an option. So I suggest the Sicilian as partner to the KID with the idea of being prepared to counter attack, but only where the demands of the position allow.

I like the book 'Attacking the Queenside' by Boris Shashin. It discusses strategies such as minority attacks, handling the pawns. Before I read this, my continued kingside attacking obsession was holding my chess back.

Maybe the French?

This Position was playd in : Alexander Chistiakov- Tigran Pertiosian, Moscow 1956.

Which is very kings Indian like. mirrored. But i think now a days probably not very popular. its also not forced to get this Kind of positions in the french.

But Tigran petrosian liked to Play the French and the Kings Indian.

And there inlies your problem!  You can't just play 1 setup regardless of what your opponent does and expect to be any good!  Understanding the Opening is part of chess.

Here are quite a few "setups" where people play blindly and in each case a line where said setup STINKS!

White:  1.c4, 2.g3, 3.Bg2, 4.Nc3:  1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2? (3.Nc3 and if 3...f5, then 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.d4! e4 6.Nh4 - Not possible with the Bishop on g2 - and White attacks f5 or entices g5 from Black where then Ng2 and h4 to entice takes or g4 and get the f4 outpost.  The Bishop is developed to e2 or d3!) f5! 4.Nc3 Nf6 and White has NOTHING!  ZILCH!

White:  1.d4, 2.Nf3, 3.e3, 4.Bd3, 5.c3:  There are at least 2 cases where this plan stinks!  1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 3.e3 (Colle sux against Fianchetto Defenses - should play the Torre, London, or 3.c4 here) Bg7 4.Bd3 d6 5.c3 O-O and White has NADA!  Also, White gets nothing against lines where the Bishop is developed outside of e6, such as 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 Bf5 4.Bd3 (no good and neither is 4.c3 - When the Bishop comes outside the pawn chain with 3...Bf5 or 3...Bg4, White must play c4 and attack the weakened queenside!).

White:  1.d4, 2.Nf3, 3.Bf4:  The Modern Defense kills the London System!  1.d4 g6 2.Nf3 Bg7 3.Bf4?! d6 4.e3 Nc6 5.h3 e5! and already Black's better.  Best here is 6.Bg3, but many amateurs go from bad to worse with 6.dxe5? dxe5 7.Qxd8+ Kxd8 8.Bg5+ f6 9.Bh4 h5 with threats of g5 and the Bishop is out of play pretty much for good!

Black:  1...g6:  All White has to do is play 1.b3 or 1.b4 and 1...g6 is not good at all for Black.  White can take advantage via wrecked pawns for Black!

White:  1.d4, 2.Nf3, 3.Bg5:  The Torre Attack is only effective against Nf6/g6 or Nf6/e6.  1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bg5?! Ne4! or 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 e6 3.Bg5?! Be7!

So if you want to be any good, you'll kill the idea of ignoring your opponent in the opening moves and actually learn what you are trying to play rather than just making rote moves without paying attention to what is going on, and so hence again why I say the best compliment to the King's Indian is the French Defense.  Both lead to either Closed or Dynamic (Open Tarrasch, Saemisch KID, etc) centers with the lone exceptions of the Exchange French and Exchange Kings Indian which usually lead to a static center.  Mobile Centers and Open Centers are almost non-existent!

A Practical Black Repertoire with Nf6, g6, d6

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7655.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7632.pdf

I think similar suggestions are made in the 1999 book,Winning Chess Openings.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140627132508/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/hansen173.pdf

If I remember correctly, many decades ago, there was a GM Evans book that suggested the KIA, the KID, and the Scandinavian.

FishEyedFools,

You understand wrong. I mean that there are certain openings where there is less contact between the pieces so you can do your own thing regardless what the opponent does(for a while). This is true for the reti and the english and I am guessing also for KIA.

Well.. I don't know that much theory. I guess i'll get a book to learn from.

"One particular approach to opening repertoire management is the use of universal systems, ... The use of such systems can enable a player to reduce the amount of opening theory he needs to study, and to reach positions of a type he is familiar with and enjoys playing. It is to the pros and cons of this approach that we now turn. ... it is rather more difficult for Black to adopt a universal system, ... The most popular one ... I will discuss in the next section. ... I refer to the King's Indian/Pirc/Modern complex. These lines are characterized by a kingside fianchetto, with such moves as ...g6, ...Bg7, ....d6, ...Nf6, etc. ... The lack of early central contact ... means that there is little chance of violent early contact knocking the player out of his preferred scheme. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2003)

pdve,

You understand chess completely wrong.  Just because there isn't immediate tension in the center does not mean that you can just ignore what your opponent is doing.  Chess is not about clash and contact.  It's about battling for key squares on the board, and then launching an attack off of there.  For example, if Black has his Bishop on d7 without anywhere else that it can go, and on a6 sits a Black pawn, and you fight and succeed in controlling c6, regardless of whether there is contact between the pieces or not, the Black Knight on b8 will never see the light of day.  If you can keep that control, Black is virtually playing down a piece for all intents and purposes, and unless he can lift the a8-Rook, it will pretty much be out of the game as well.  At that point, while controlling c6, you build up a local piece superiority on the Kingside, and only after the rest of your pieces are ready while Black can do nothing but sit, watch, and toggle, you proceed to lift the control of c6 to get the last couple of pieces in the attack on the King, at a point that while Black may now be able to play Nb8-c6, it's way too late!

Just because there are 32 pieces on the board does not mean the other 32 squares are irrelevant in any given position.  You don't have to occupy c6 (or any other square) to control and dominate c6!

From one opening to another, are there differences in the probability that a critical decision will arise in the first few moves?

ThrillerFan,

When I say you can play independently of the opponent then that has to be take with a grain of salt. I don't mean completely ignore the opponent, i.e. when he is threatening to win a center pawn(or key square), ignore it. No, that's not what I mean. I mean, that upto a rating of 1700-1800 you can win by adopting the same plan game after game. I hvae managed to win games lately by adopting the opening

1.e4 e5 2.g3?!

and then later following with moving the f3 knight back and with a king side pawn storm in KID style.

"... The lack of early central contact ... means that there is little chance of violent early contact knocking the player out of his preferred scheme. ..." - FM Steve Giddins (2003)

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/7700.pdf

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/9029.pdf

Fine!  I'm done posting on this thread!  You clearly think you know everything, and that what an OTB 2100 player has to say is totally wrong and that everything I have said has been bullsh*t.

Clearly you think that just because something works when playing against a 1700 clown that it must be a good habit to establish!  So you go right ahead and use your delusional mind to play what you think is great chess when really you are creating a bunch of bad habits, and once you start playing against us 2000+ players, you will get smashed every time! 

But, of course, you know everything and clearly just asked the question to find something to argue about!

BYE!  Enjoy continuing to suck at chess!