Lets try to break the Berlin Wall together!

1.e4 is known to lead to agressive, exciting play. After 1.e4 e5, one of white`s best lines is known to be 2. Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5, the Ruy Lopez. However, black may play 3...Nf6, the Berlin Defense. If white doesn`t want to play a slightly passive move like 4.d3, he must play aginst the berlin wall, which leads to a drawish position. 1.e4 shouldnt lead to drawish positions! Can we punish black for playing the berlin wall?

I am not trying to fully refute the berlin. I am trying to find a way to exploit white`s positional advantage with help from other chess.com members. I am not searching for a tactical refutation but rather a mean to keep the positional edge and avoid a drawish endgame (without losing, of course). Could you help me, Fiveofswords?

Why is that favourable for white? It reminds me a bit of the Exchange Variation without queens.

Black has lost the right to castle, so his king is exposed to a fast attack(thats what Bg5 is about), and he has doubled pawns, so he is worse in the endgame.

Mmm, I don't like it, but while black keeps the bishop pair I don't think it will be worse in the endgame. Why not simply playing 4. Bxc6 then?

4.Bxc6 is okay, but ...Nf6 is far more useful than the comparable ...a6 in the Exchange Variation.

4.Nc3 is also a move we could think about, as it transposes to the Spanish Four Knights. I liked the d3+c3 idea a lot though, RouteToGM.

It's worth pointing out that 4. d3 isn't white's only option to castling.

He can also play 4. d4 or 4. Qe2.  These moves may not be any better, but they do provide alternative paths for exploration, and may be less drawish than the main lines.

(There are other options too: 4. Nc3 transposes to a four knights game, and 4 Bxc6 is a form of the exchange variation.  However these options may not give white the dynamic game he is looking for)

Good idea, route, but i don`t know how to edit diagrams. :(

Also d4 and Qe2 are interesting ideas. I will consider them.

I'm not playing the Berlin, I'm playing the 'refuted' Caro-Kann, nevertheless 4.d3 makes sense, to me, but what do I know anyway.

I pretty much only play 4.d3 and eventually a pawn to c3 for my light square bishop to escape to (as soon as black protects his e pawn). I don't know if I can consider it passive, it feels like I still have the initiative usually and a positonal avantage to boot, strong pawn center, posts for my pieces, ability to get piece superiority towards blacks king.

But I play blitz between 1600-1800 range, I dont have to worry about draws, in any opening! I'm either going to win or lose lol.

Its very easy to refute actually! I will show you a strong line recommended by IM Pfren recently:

White has plenty of chances at lower levels. Healthy pawn majority in an endgame. The idea is obvious (create a passer and queen).

Also, genius players have already analyzed this opening for years. There's nothing new you'll find. In fact, you should rather concern yourself with learning the basics.

yes! we must grind the slight advantage to a win no matter whatever black tries!

That`s the spirit!

I have been experimenting with the Berlin as black. There are two lines black can choose to play after the most critical position arises after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. 0-0 Nxe4 5.d4 Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7. dxe5 Nf5 8. Qxd8 kxd8. There are two ma plans black has here, and that is to find safety for his king on either the queenside or the kingside. Black also has to make sure his opponent doesn't get to play the move e5-e6 because this usually means some serious trouble for black. Luckily for black though, his white squared bishop is a great blockader of that square, never the less white often times tries for e5-e6 and often times tries to get his pawn majority rolling on the king side, while black does the same on the queen side but is usually less efficient because of his doubled pawns and black's play is not efficient if white does not choose the plan Nc3 b3 Bb2, because a5  a4 does not attack the b3 pawn if white doesn't choose this plan,. and black does not threaten to take on b3 with his a pawn, opening up the queen side and activating his bad rook on a8. Another plan for black is to go Ke8 and then h5 to combat white's king side majority and to attempt to hinder his attacking chances on the king side. If black can do this white will have serious trouble winning. h5 also gives the rook a chance to get in to the game via. h6, a rook lift. Keep in mind that if black can trade his black squared bishop for white's b2 nite it's considered a victory for black in the berlin, because this b1 nite often times gives black serious trouble when it posts up on d5 being supported by c4 . This happened in Magnus' game vs Anand in their WCC match of 2013. Even though Anand seemingly equalized this nite was a menace on d5. With this being said, here's a sample line. 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 Nf6 4. 0-0 Nxe4 (Re1? this line is considered the most drawish, and Magnus used it to draw against sergey in their final game of their WCC match.) 5.D4!(The most critical line) Nd6 6. Bxc6 dxc6 7.dxe5 Nf5 8.Qxd8 Kxd8 9.Nc3 Bd7 10.b3  h6 (to stop Ng5 after Kc8)  11. Bb2 Kc8 12. Rad1 b6 12.Rfe1? Bb4! Okay, this position highlights how white can loose all the sting in his position if he doesn't know what he is doing. All of white's play up until this point seemed natural. He centralized the rook, developed his pieces, but allowed bb4, which exchanges the dark squared bishop for nite, in most openings this isn't a bad thing but in the berlin it is. Now white will have no storong nite to put on d5 with the support of c4 and we're likely to enter an endgame of opposite colored bishops, which is notorious for being drawish. To put maximum pressure on black as white, make sure to test different ideas, because black will have to be versatile in his responses to white's different plans. 

3. Bc4

Let's break it down .

We can't. It is too strong to break, as you know it is a strong sort of wall. Lol.

im not an e4 player (or a d4 player, or even a 1.c4 player) but if i ever were to add 1.e4 to my repertoire, my way to deal with the berlin is to simply bypass it. i would stick to bishop's opening, Scotch, and g3 vienna/vienna gambit. Life is too short to play agaisnt berlins!