London system question

I have been working with the London system and am getting tripped up.

[edited...see below!]

Here I face c4 driving bc2, but after g6 the position seems locked for white and better for black. I am having trouble finding good play from here.

Am I missing another response to c4 or a preventative move?  I tried to find examples of games with this but my research skills are poor.

Thank you for ANY help or direction!!

David

I am wondering if I missed a move, since I was doing it from memory.  Attached is the position (I hope!):

So it is all in one post:

Here I face 8. ...c4 driving 9. bc2, but after ...g6 the position seems locked for white and better for black. I am having trouble finding good play from here.

Am I missing another response to c4 or a preventative move?  I tried to find examples of games with this but my research skills are poor.

Thank you for ANY help or direction!!

David

In this position I would look to push e4 since you have control over the square and will be threatening e5 forking the bishop and knight. Even if he takes your dark square bishop this will help activate the h1 rook with the coordination of the c2 bishop. let me know your thoughts .

What would stop the block with the bishop and, if exchanging, exchange with the queen?  Wouldn't this be + for black here since black's LS bishop is weaker than white's after the opening because of the pawn structure?

Yeah, I think black taking the bishop on g3 is a mistake for the reason you said.  

If, after the c4 and bc2 I mentioned, black has been moving Qd7.  I am not sure pushing e pawn would accomplish much if black ignores it (with bc7), yes?

You can never assume black' s response.

I understand that, but I can play the position if black screws up.    I can't analyze assuming black makes a mistake...otherwise a Fool's Mate move set would grade stellar! 

Was watching an Eric Rosen video and he was thinking about doing something like this in a game. I doubt this was the exact position.

Doubling black's pawns on the C file isn't a great idea in this position because he will use the first to clear away your D pawn and then have a larger center. Better to keep the bishop 

Best thing is don't play the London (:

in the position after 9 bc2, black, by playing c4, released the pressure he had on the d4 point and all the possibilities of taking on d4 which could have helped distract white from attacking on the kingside. also as black doesn't have superior influence on the kingside he can't realistically do anything there. that means that when he plays c4 he is already committed to playing on the queenside with a pawn storm (e.g., b5-b4, bxc3 and so on) if you imagine this succeeding, you'll notice that although black will have created a weakness on c3, it is not so easy to attack it because black's pieces are not in position yet. further, if black just blindly focus fires on c3 white can possibly just give it up and focus on black's king. 

the thematic plan for white in this position where black releases the tension with c4, is to put the knight on e5, support it with f4 if necessary, and bring everything you can to the kingside to attack. the bishop may go to h4 to put some pressure on nf6, and also make room for the pawn push g4, the queen may go to f3 to add more control to e4 preventing ne4, and may swing over to h3 at some point eyeing h7.

you have to make sure that black doesn't get a knight to e4 when you cannot favorably eliminate that knight. also, any pawn move black does on the kingside invites further sacrificial ideas. if he goes g6 he invites both f5 and h5 and sometimes even a sac on g6 is possible, for if you manage to force black to play h5 himself. if he goes h6 then it invites possible sacrifices on h6 (ne5-g4-xh6) and also invites g5, not to mention it weakens g6 and makes it harder for black to kick ne5 because now f6 will completely weaken black's kingside.

Exactly!

In fact, I have always found the following to be very strong for Black, postponing c5:

1.d4 Nf6 (1...e6 or 1...d5 can lead to the same position with a different move order) 2.Bf4 d5 3.e3 e6 4.Nf3 Bd6 5.h3 (or 5.Bg3) O-O 6.Be2 (or 6.Bd3) b6 7.O-O Bb7 with moves like Ne4 coming the moment e4 is threatened, Qe7, Nbd7, etc.

Also possible is 7...Ba6 instead of 7...Bb7, going for the trade of Bishops instead of controlling e4.

The former is one of the chapters I believe from the book by Chess Stars on Fighting the London System (do not own that one) and the latter is from Ntrilis's book on d4 d5 for Black.

There are deviations for White not mentioned here, but they are covered.  In both cases Black may play c5 later on, but no early commitment.

As far as the OP, hope this trips him up some day too!  I have little to no respect for the London System, and like the Exchange French, see it as nothing more than a weasel opening and a draw offer from White on move 2 or 3 (depending on whether you play 2.Bf4 or 3.Bf4).  Black may have fewer winning chances than in something like the Kings Indian or Grunfeld, but with maturity, and acceptance of something Anand once said, "If white wants a draw, white has a draw", then with a rock solid and effective defense in a regular time control (not online bullet or blitz where any shenanigans can work, including 1.h4) against the London System could virtually give you something like a 2 - 60 - 38 record (%White - %Draw - %Black) at the amateur level (roughly what mine is as Black over the board after 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.exd5 exd5 since 2014) and something more like 2 - 96 - 2 at the master level.

Like the exchange French, White is banking on Black to press and blunder or over-extend as a result of playing too hard to win.  Just neutralize and hold the position until White either cracks or does not crack and gives in to the half point and you will virtually never lose to the London System.

Last time I can recall facing it over the board against anybody over 1800 was about 2 years ago against a low master - about 150 points above me.  I missed a win at the end in time trouble, but White never had anything! 

Another who used to play it all the time quit playing it and has been playing the English of late with far better results (including beating me the last 2 times he had White against me - possibly even the last 3).

So yes, do not assume Black's response, and those looking for an answer for Black that play 1...Nf6, 1...e6, or 1...d5, give the delayed-c5 system a look with a Queenside Fianchetto after castling a look.  If White checks with the Bishop, then ...c6 and later on when it is time, you can play ...c5.

Keep tripping up the London players!!!

Introduction To The London System & Jobava London System...

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/the-london-system