tyzebug wrote:
At the same time, I'm not too clear why 4.e4?! Nf6 5.Nc3 e5! 6.dxe5 Qxd1+ 7.Kxd1 Ng4! (shown below) is supposed to allow Black to equalize...I've tried playing against Rybka on my computer and it responds 8.Nh3 to defend the f3 square. If Black responds by taking the e5 pawn, White counterattacks via 10.Nb5. Black can't copy White's defence with Na6 because White's f1 bishop is not blocked by a pawn and can take the knight on the rook file, unlike the Black bishop.
Just a quick note: after 10.Nb5 Na6, the white bishop can't take the knight on a6, because the knight on b5 is in the way.
Great to see you don't take book lines as gospel!
Ooookay, gonna try to keep my attention on the opening itself here rather than getting drawn into the argument. Based on what ouachita said...
1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nf6 3. cxd5 Nxd5
The Marshall is tricky but against a unprepared opponent should get a big advantage. After 1.d4 d5 2. c4 Nf6 3. cxd5 Nxd5, if White plays 4. e4?!, (s)he is committing the e pawn too early and will probably only get equality. If White plays 4.e4 at once, Black can equalize with 4...Nf6 5. Nc3 e5!; playing Nf3 before e4 prevents this.
Soltis recommends: 4. Nf3!:
4. ... g6 5. e4 Nb6 is a Neo-Gruenfeld where Black is cramped and behind in development, or
4. ...Bf5 5. Qb3! Nc6 6. Nbd2 Nb6 (forced, to protect b7 and avoid the fork on e4) 7. e4 Bg6 8. d5 Nb8 9. a4 a5 10. Ne5 Nbd7 11. Bb5 and Black is terrible.
1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 d5 3. cxd5 Nxd5 4. Nf3 Nc6 5. e4 Nb6 6. Bb5 Bd7 7. O-O e5 8. d5 Nd4 9. Bxd7+ 1-0
Many thanks for explaining the lines following 4.Nf3!. I agree that g6 is a rather poor variation of the Grunfeld for Black, and now I see how to continue after 4. ...Bf5 5.Qb5!. The line covering the possible response 4. ...Nc6 was helpful too.
On a side note though, I forgot to mention one line I noticed in the 4.e4 Nf6 5.c3 e5! scenario that appears to let White hold the advantage. Did I overlook something here? I note that White is up a pawn in this line, so the onus seems to be on Black to either regain the pawn or gain positional advantage as compensation...but he seems to be able to achieve neither if White plays as follows.
12. ...Ke7 seems forced since blocking 12.Bg5+ with 12. ...Be7 lets the white knight escape after trading bishops, and so does 12. ...Ke8 (the black knight can escape too in return, but White is still a pawn up). Similarly, moving the king after 13.Bb5+ allows the knight to escape, so Black has to block. After 14. Rd1+ the response 14. ...Ke6 is forced, and White threatens 15. Nf3 followed by 16. Nc7#; hence further delaying Black's retrieval of his knight. So it seems Black is still being beaten here...did I miss something? (this is all just out of curiousity rather than any practical purpose though, since I'm probably gonna be playing 4.Nf3 every time I encounter the Marshall Defense from now on, since I know how to use that line now.)
Oh, btw, coach777, I'm not intending to play the Marshall Defense as Black, I'm trying to learn how to beat it as White. I'm a habitual Queen's Gambit player as White, and I see this line often enough in casual games that I'd like to know how to beat it, since it's supposed to allow White to hold an advantage.