Need Help with Colle System

I'm usually fine playing a Colle System as White, but I was thrown off after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5, shown in the diagram below.

 

How should I play as white from here?

 

I like playing that bishop move as black, too, just in case white intends to play the Colle. Once white plays Bd3, black trades bishops. Note that black's center pawns are on the light squares and white's center pawns are on the dark squares, so trading light squared bishops favors black. Black ends up with a good bishop while white has a bad bishop.

 

--Fromper 

For black that's fine Fromper, but that's exactly what I don't want to happen when I set out to play a Colle as white.  Do you have any advice as to what I should play instead of Bd3?

 Thanks for the tip Pagrus, I'll try it out soon!

Smith and Hall's "Winning With the Colle System" recommends 3. c4 followed by 4. cxd5 in that situation.  Their illustrative game for this variation is Speelman-Short, Hasting 1988/89 (http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1124346).  (With the first 2 moves reversed, of course. :) )

Well, it's a system, so its characteristic is inflexible. Actually White is ignoring Black's response in setting up the system... So do as usual, if you are bold enough to develop the game early by trading the white-squared bishop. But, if you are intending to keep the Colle's Sacrifice alive you should push White's bishop away. But i think it's a waste to hold the system, so in my opinion I believe you should abandon the system and play 3. c4, followed by 4. e3. Switching to another line in the Queen's Pawn OP instead.

What's so bad. Remember, just try to develop your peices normally, while at the same time imposing some threats. Bf4 looks decent, or take out a knight.

My basic chess sense tells me the last thing I want to do is trade off my good bishop and make my other bishop worse by having it be stuck behind same colored pawns.

 I'm not necessarily going die-hard Colle to the very end, was just wondering what options I had to play from this position as white.

I have to say that I agree with others that 3.c4 is the move to play in that position the point of which is that black might find himself in trouble if he plays an early e6 which leaves tactical chances on the queenside like Qb3, Ne5, and Bb5 causing black a great deal of unrest.  Also you could look into the Torre Attack with Bg5 here.  There are some great opportunities although theoritically it held in about the same regard as the colle. Hope this helps!

Sprite wrote:

I'm usually fine playing a Colle System as White, but I was thrown off after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5, shown in the diagram below.

 How should I play as white from here?

 

For mer, I'll play c4 

 

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Sprite wrote:

I'm usually fine playing a Colle System as White, but I was thrown off after 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bf5, shown in the diagram below.

 How should I play as white from here?

by the way, look at that:

 1. d4  d5  2. Nf3 Bf5  3. c4  e6  4. Nc3  c6 ...etc *

 

 

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I've just started playing the Colle again, so I've been refreshing my memory on how to play it by looking at Action Chess by CJS Purdy, which is the book that taught me the opening originally when I played it 5-6 years ago. Against 1. d4 d5 2. Nf3 Bf5, Purdy recommends just switching to the Queen's Gambit with an early c4, as others have mentioned above. 

 

By pure coincidence, I've also recently started playing the Baltic Defense as black, which is 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Bf5. I'm learning about that from the book Unusual Queen's Gambit Declined by Chris Ward. The move 3. Nf3 transposes to what we're talking about here for Colle players, and it's one of the four main moves that Ward thinks white can make against the Baltic. The others are 3. Nc3, 3. cxd5, and 3. Qb3, if anyone is interested. The 3. Nf3 move does seem to be the weakest of those 4 moves, so this line is slightly more favorable for black than other lines, but it's still a reasonable line with chances for both sides. Just pray that your opponent isn't a Baltic Defense specialist. :p

 

There's a common trap in the Baltic that you should probably all be aware of if you're going to play this line:

 

--Fromper 

DEAR  FORUM  MEMBERS,  I  THINK  I  REMEMBER  FROMPER  FROM  SOME  PREVIOUS NOTATION,   I  ENJOYED  READING  YOUR  PERSPECTIVES  OF  WHICH  ARE  INTERESTING TO  ME  BECAUSE  I HAVE JUST STARTED  PLAYING THE  COLLE:ZUKERTORT  VARIATION.   I  HAVE  BE  PLAYING  SUSAN POLGARS DVD

OVER  AND OVER  SINCE SHE  PLAY  THE  COLLE

I  FOLLOW HER  SAME  GAME  PLAN  WITH  THE  HOST  OF  MY  CHESS CLUB  ALL THE  TIME,  GETTING  THE  KNIGHT TO  E-5  AS  WHITE,  KINGS  ROOK  TO  H3

AND THEN TRY  TO FIANCHETTO MY  BISHOP   TO  H-7 AND  COME IN  WITH  A CHECKMATE  WITH MY  QUEEN  AND  ROOK.

THIS  DOESN'T  WORK AT  MY CHESS CLUB, THE OLDERE  GENTLEMAN THAT HOSTS

THE  CLUB   IS  WELL VERSED  IN   THIS  AREA

I'M  HOPING THAT  A MEMBER  WHO IS REAL  KN OWLEDGEABLE IN  THE  COLLE WOULD  GIVE  ME  SOME   ADDED  KNOWLEDGE  IN  THIS  OPENING  THAT  WOULD HELP  ME

 

I  WAS  PLAYING  THE  SCOTCH  WITH  THE  BLACKBURN  ATTACK  AND LIKE  THAT  ALSO,  BUT I  AM  NOT  GREAT  AT  CHESS JUST  WANT TO  LEARN TO  PLAY  A BETTER  GAME

IN  CLOSING,  THE  ADVICE YOU GAVE  ON  STUDYING TACTICS  IS  GOLDEN,  I HEAR IT OVE5R , OVER AND OVER

 

STUDY  TACTICS  AND  END GAMES

                 THANKS FOR THE  ADVICE

ANY MORE INFO ON  COLLE , PLEASE  EMAIL  ME AT  antne003@comcast.net

 

                                        respectfully  submitted,  appreciative  antne003

Yes, c4 is the best plan for White. Black may also decide to fianchetto on g7 against the colle(to make the d3 bishop bite granite!). In that case i think it is also best to switch to a c4 push too. 

 

I typed up some info about the colle in another thread. Have a look http://www.chess.com/forum/view/chess-openings/collen

I find black's attempt to trade white bishops extremly annoying as well.

It's even worse if black does this when playing the Stonewall.

 

I don't know if all those people are Colle fanatics, but they don't really answer your question, I Think. I'm not a master but I have observed this. The black bishop is not a problem. In some games, Colle played e3 and Bd3, exchanging in most of cases, Queen takes black bishop and another game is beginning. Black player doesn't win anything in the final. Colle played often c3 and not c4, white stonewall, c4 is creating back all the Q pawns openings. What I tried since months is to play Kh4, questioning the Bishop until I get an answer. I exchange sometimes with the knight, and immediately after my own bishop goes in d3. You play two times your K in the opening but most of the time this will be of no consequence (under 2500 elo :). I don't know any other guy playing this, but I would be glad to meet the dubble Kn move against black bishop. Return of vacation, we could play it together if you want. 

Wittgenstein wrote: I don't know if all those people are Colle fanatics, but they don't really answer your question, I Think. I'm not a master but I have observed this. The black bishop is not a problem. In some games, Colle played e3 and Bd3, exchanging in most of cases, Queen takes black bishop and another game is beginning. Black player doesn't win anything in the final. Colle played often c3 and not c4, white stonewall, c4 is creating back all the Q pawns openings. What I tried since months is to play Kh4, questioning the Bishop until I get an answer. I exchange sometimes with the knight, and immediately after my own bishop goes in d3. You play two times your K in the opening but most of the time this will be of no consequence (under 2500 elo :). I don't know any other guy playing this, but I would be glad to meet the dubble Kn move against black bishop. Return of vacation, we could play it together if you want. 

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 Nh4 is an option too and was played against Capablanca in 1911. I have seen club players play what Wittgenstein says Colle played, exchanging bishops on d3 and recapturing with the queen. I still think c4 is Whites best try at seeking an advantage in the opening. I suppose white has many options, even g3, but c4 is the way to go if any advantage is to be obtained.

i  played  the  colle and  was  told  by experts that it was  a  solid  opening,  but

i  resorted  back  to  the scotch opening as  i had  more success  with  the  scotch.  i  also tryed  the  vienna, but again  went back  to  the scotch

 

anyone  with  good info and  new  lines  on  scotch are  appreciated

 

                                 thank  you  all     tony,  (antne003)

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So the plan is to hit d5 with c4 and to bring the queen to b3.  Many people will defend the pawn with b7-b6, then you can take advantage of the weakness on c6 with your N and B eventually in the game.

Just thought I would throw this out to the colle gang: As as Colle player, what is your favorite response to a Kings Indian/Pirc defense setup?

don't play colle vs that just play c4 queens gambit