Opening explorer doesn't actually show the popularity of moves? Lichess is better

Ok I'm making this after my post about the Englund Gambit in the opening explorer because I've realised how it works now.

The opening explorer doesn't show the most common moves from a given position on the board (which is what the Lichess explorer does). It shows the most common positions which are one move away from the position on the board. 

The most basic example is if you enter 1. Nf3 e5, which is the very bad Ross gambit, the best move is clearly Nxe5 but it won't show the number of times moves have been played from 1. Nf3 e5. Instead it will show e4 as the 'most common move' because e4 turns the game into a very common position after 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3. I'm saying this is a terrible function because you cannot find the most common move at any given position. You can only find the most common positions one move away.

This is very annoying for daily games, where you can use the explorer but not computer analysis of openings, because if you are a beginner (like me) and someone plays 1.Nf3 e5, you cannot tell if most masters accept the gambit or not, because there's no way of showing the moves from 1.Nf3 e5, only the frequency of the possible next positions.

If anyone has any insight on this, it would be much appreciated. For now I will use the Lichess explorer for daily chess, which I assume is allowed?

If you have access to both and computer analysis is allowed in your daily game, I would use both databases.

Lichess allows you to search by what other players have played while Chess.com does only your games, other specific player games, and Master games. It's part of the reason I use Lichess as it allows you more options

This doesn’t really impede anything. You just look down one extra move. Including transpositions is very helpful when researching openings like the English. Both sites databases have their place.

Will note that databases are always fine in daily so long as they do not have a live engine evaluation for you to see 

Thought so, thanks

Don't see how you can 'look down one extra move'. There's still no way of telling (with certainty) what the most popular move is in a given position. I can see the use of including transpositions though, so I guess using a combination of Chess.com and Lichess works for now. Thanks everyone for helping me understand.

Also yea I wasn't trying to make a 'Lichess is better' rant even though I literally said that in the title. Just thought it was interesting that they have different functionalities, because they appear to be the same at the surface.

If you know which moves are transpositions and which moves are generally accepted to be strong or “in the spirit of the opening”, it is possible. For example in the Nimzowitsch defense, e4 Nc6 Nf3! The cc database will undoubtedly say that 2…e5 is the most common move. But this is false, since nobody who starts with 1…Nc6 is going to be willing to transpose into 1.e4 e5 positions. So you would look “one move down” in this case to find the true most popular move.

But I see what you mean. It’s not always possible to tell apart these differences.

Oh yeah I get you now. I was thinking from the perspective of not having any knowledge of which moves are good and which are clearly transpositions. 

Maybe there is something I don't understand, but how is it not cheating to use a database during a game, daily or not? 

Because daily chess developed from correspondence or postal chess, which traditionally allowed people to consult reference books.  They provided limited information that might get you ten moves into a game.  Reference materials were usually limited to one volume books.   The Encyclopedia of Chess Openings (ECO) was a big 5 volume opening reference first published in the late 70's.  That was about as far as you could go.

That's very Interesting. Thanks.

One of the benefits of playing postal chess was that you normally had a few days to really examine the position.  It required the use of multiple sets (or a special postal chess album) but was very good for developing analytical abilities.

Nowadays, a lot of players get annoyed with people who actually dare to use their allowed time. 

No offense, but the problem sits between chair and computer. Database are a tool for experienced players (ELO 2300+) not for beginners.

Of course I can understand everyone wants to use the db. They are for free and even chessbase for 100 bucks is not the big money. But if someone really thinks about 1. d4 e5 2. e4 or 1. Nf3 e5 2.e4 then a database is not the right tool. A basic understanding of openings is necessary.

That's like saying maps are only useful to people who are well-traveled. After a few moves I'll be on my own, sure, but there's no doubt I'll be off to a better start. 

This reminds me of an old version of google maps

Swim across the Atlantic Ocean

It's not bad for a beginner to see what other players are playing in the position. They can learn a lot from the database in regard to the opening as they can see that some moves score a lot better than others. This would indicate that they should look into it so that if it scores well for their opponent, at least see where people go wrong and how to improve on it. At the masters level, even if a position is still good for both sides and one side has a significant win rate from that position, it would be a clear indicator that one side has an easier position to play which would make some reconsider their decisions in the opening