Opening for black against 1.e4 and 1.d4 similar in style to the Scotch game

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ziopera2106

Hello everyone, I'm trying to build my little repertoire, just something against 1.e4 and 1.d4. As white I only play the Scotch and I really like it. I was wondering if there are some openings against 1.e4 and 1.d4 that are similar in style (striking in the center, early development, semi-open/open positions, tactics). Kasparov was a Scotch player so I checked his games with the black pieces, I see he mostly played the Najdorf and the Grunfeld. I like those openings but they are too heavy on theory, especially the Grunfeld, it would take too much time to learn them well. I'm open to all kinds of suggestion, thanks happy.png

Ethan_Brollier

You're 1400 rapid? That's pretty good.
You might like Sicilian, specifically: the Chelyabinsk, Novosibirsk, and 10... f5 Sveshnikovs or the Kalashnikov Lowenthal, as they strike in the center early, and Black gets a fun, aggressive game, you might like the Taimanov, which is similar but slightly more reserved while remaining aggressive and very solid.

Alternatively, if you don't even want to touch the Sicilian Defense, you could learn the French, specifically: the Poisoned Pawn Winawer (6... Ne7 7. Qg4), the Classical Winawer (6... Qc7 7. Qg4), or the Armenian Winawer (5. Ba5); the 7... Be7 Boleslavsky Steinitz; and the Burn Classical or the MacCutcheon Classical.

ziopera2106

Yes at the moment I'm 1400 but I haven't played much, I want to first decide what openings to use and then focus on playing, obviously alongside studying tactics and endgames. After searching a bit online and checking your great suggestions I think the Sicilian has what I'm looking for, It's not like I'm in a hurry or anything so I have all the time it takes to learn it happy.png. That takes care of 1.e4, do you also have some suggestions for 1.d4?

SamuelAjedrez95

I think Sveshnikov is a good choice. You develop quickly and apply pressure onto the opponent. In these lines, it's often black who seizes the initiative and attacks white.

Against d4, the Tarrasch might be a good choice.

In this line, black allows an IQP in exchange for open lines for attack.

ziopera2106

Thank you for your suggestions! The Sveshnikov actually looks great, I like having the initiative. The Tarrasch also looks interesting and I'll definetely look into it . If you have more suggestions against 1.d4 let me know happy.png

SamuelAjedrez95

The opening I really like personally is the King's Indian Defence. This is more of a closed position but is very aggressive as it's often black who's the one playing for mate by expanding on the kingside.

Like so.

The Nimzo-Indian is also a great defence. It's very positionally solid as it disallows e4 with pieces. It's also very flexible so allows you to adapt your setup to each variation and your own preference. Some lines can be played more aggressively, like this Dutch type setup.

I would've definitely suggested the Grünfeld as that's more open and pretty dynamic like the Scotch. I think the Tarrasch is the best d4 alternative to the Grünfeld in terms of dynamic, open play.

ziopera2106

You really helped me a lot, I didn't really know what to go for but you gave me so many options. Time to study, thanks!!

SamuelAjedrez95

There is a good video on the Sveshnikov here if that's what you're decided on

ziopera2106

Great thanks, I was looking for some books but a video I think it's even better. If you find any useful material on the Tarrasch let me know happy.png

Ethan_Brollier
ziopera2106 wrote:

Yes at the moment I'm 1400 but I haven't played much, I want to first decide what openings to use and then focus on playing, obviously alongside studying tactics and endgames. After searching a bit online and checking your great suggestions I think the Sicilian has what I'm looking for, It's not like I'm in a hurry or anything so I have all the time it takes to learn it . That takes care of 1.e4, do you also have some suggestions for 1.d4?

For d4, I'd recommend playing for the Benko Gambit or trying for the QPO: English Rat Defense (1. d4 d6 2. c4 e5!) but transposing to the KID with 2... g6 after 2. Nf3 trying for the Orthodox Positional Defense.

FianchettoNoMore

My experience has been that half the time I play 1.e4 c5 I do NOT get a Sicilian. I first have to learn to play the Alapin, Gran Prix, Smith Morra Gambit, Wing Gambit, Closed Sicilian, KIA, and 2.b6 lines then you get to play a Sicilian BUT expect to see an early deviation in most of these games! The bottom line for me is that studying the Sicilian is a virtual waste of time. I would rather play openings where my study pays off on a regular basis. The French and Caro Kann basically have four mainlines so they qualify. The Scandi and Alekhine force the mainlines or you get an even better game so they certainly qualify. The fianchetto lines are so flexible that you need a different mind set and are ready to wing-it in most games, so they are interesting but the exact opposite of forcing (Pirc, Modern, Owen's/English, Hippo).

Ethan_Brollier
FianchettoNoMore wrote:

My experience has been that half the time I play 1.e4 c5 I do NOT get a Sicilian. I first have to learn to play the Alapin, Gran Prix, Smith Morra Gambit, Wing Gambit, Closed Sicilian, KIA, and 2.b6 lines then you get to play a Sicilian BUT expect to see an early deviation in most of these games! The bottom line for me is that studying the Sicilian is a virtual waste of time. I would rather play openings where my study pays off on a regular basis. The French and Caro Kann basically have four mainlines so they qualify. The Scandi and Alekhine force the mainlines or you get an even better game so they certainly qualify. The fianchetto lines are so flexible that you need a different mind set and are ready to wing-it in most games, so they are interesting but the exact opposite of forcing (Pirc, Modern, Owen's/English, Hippo).

That seems to me to be a bit of an over-exaggeration. I don’t know if the 2100 rapid pool is different to the 1800 blitz pool, but I’d expect to see far more anti-Sicilians, not far less, and yet I see at least 70% Opens, and the other 30% are almost perfectly split between Alapin and Closed. And yes, while the Alapin can be incredibly drawish and annoying, the Closed, Westerinen, and KIA in particular are all very interesting to fight while not being as challenging as trying to play Black in a mainline Taimanov, Kan, or Scheveningen, and everything else you listed is a joke.

Meanwhile, in the Caro-Kann especially, you’re worse in the Advance, and there are approximately 30 sidelines that are all shockingly playable for White, I’ll pass.

The French has the Two Knights, KIA, Advance, Exchange, Tarrasch, Milner-Barry, Steinitz, and Classical, which is a decent amount to prep against and oftentimes these lines are incredibly deep and sharp but White is free to deviate at any time at little risk to self.

5… e6 Mieses-Kotrc Mainline Scandinavian is the only acceptable variation, that one gets a pass from me despite me not particularly liking it, but you do have to deal with 3. Nf3 and the more passive setups than the Nc3 d4 Bc4 Bd2 Qe2 Nf3 0-0-0 Rhe1 Kb2 stuff.

Alekhine’s is awesome, shame it’s borderline unplayable past a certain point and therefore not worth even learning past surprise weapon status for a long term club player.

If you really like more freeform, passive, counter-attacking play in the fianchetto style, I’d recommend looking into the 5… g6 Gubinsky-Melts Scandi. This is a genuine recommendation, it’s Black’s second-best try in the Scandinavian but it’s much more interesting imo and you have potential surprise value with 5… c6 and 5… a6 also being worse but playable lines with sharp and precise counterplay needed from White to capitalize whatsoever.

4… e6 5… Be7 Retreat Scandi, and the De Bruycker Caro-Kann are fun, but they both rely on the same thing: who would study them? They both drastically change the tone of the opening they’re in, with the Scandi computer lines often having Black play in a QID style or a Sicilian style, which is very interesting, and the Caro-Kann with less time and space but a better knight and an even more solid structure is hilarious to me but also shockingly viable. I’d recommend just messing around in analysis with them both sometime for a bit and then taking them out for a spin in blitz. I doubt you’d really want either as your main weapon.