Opening system for black similar to KIA/Colle

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Christoffercollin

I am looking for an opening system for black that is similar to the Kings Indian Attack and Colle system for white. In other words I want a system in which i pretty much play the same opening moves no matter what moves white plays (since I do not like to memorize opening lines but rather play). Is there any such system except the Hippo? In regards of the Sniper it seems like it could lead to all sorts of standard opening lines (Dragon, Accelerated dragon, Dzindzi Indian, etc.) that thus have to be memorized. 

learningthemoves

King's Indian Defense. 

TitanCG

There's the hippo but you have to be flexible and open to playing different kinds of positions. You don't need any theory but it's not easy to play.



Christoffercollin

So how do I reach the kings indian defence if black plays 1. E4?

learningthemoves

black can't legally play 1.E4

kwokman

theres the 1.d6 system which pretty much can be played regardless of d4, e4 and probably c4 and nf3, resulting in Czech pirc or old Indian defence systems

kwokman

im playing with the colle and hippo recently for similar reasons to yours, but also bcos the computer absolutely disagrees with my pet openings 1.Nc3 and 1.Nc6, Ive been getting much higher accuracy in my colle and hippo games, in other words the computer 90% agrees with my rather boring moves now

ThrillerFan

The blunt answer is that there is no one size fits all.

 

In fact, if Black knows you auto-play a single opening, and they know it, they can take advantage because you clearly have zero understanding and play like a robot.

 

King's Indian Attack - If you play it via 1.e4, then 1...e5! Kills your game.  Do not play the Scandinavian, arguing it avoids the KIA, let White play his KIA.  His position is useless and Black has an easy game.  There is a reason GMs play the KIA against the French and e6-Sicilians and nowhere else.  The Black light-squared Bishop is blocked and cannot easily get to the kingside, and so White goes for a kingside attack on the light squares.  With the Bishop unblocked and able to come out, any light square attack on the kingside is basically impossible.

 

If White plays the KIA via 1.Nf3, then the Reverse King's Indian setup (1...d5 with c5, Nc6, etc with either a reverse fianchetto or reverse saemisch setup - the extra tempo matters in the reverse Classical and hence the reverse classical is no good for Black.  White has nothing and is usually worse in these lines.

 

Colle - Like the Kings Indian Attack (and the Catalan for that matter), this whole opening is reliant on Black once again blocking his LSB.

After 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 e6, the Colle works like a charm.

After 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6 3.e3, again it works like a charm.

 

However, if Black keeps the LSB unblocked, the Colle is trash.

1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 Bf5 (or 3...Bg4) is actually called the Anti-Colle.  Now 4.Bd3 or 4.c3 are both terrible.  Only way for White to do anything is to play 4.c4!, going after the weakened light squares on Black's queenside.  Now after 4...c6, you are straight up in a Slav Defense and need to know Slav theory.

 

Another case where the Colle is trash is any fianchetto defense (King's Indian or Grunfeld) or the Dutch.  The Bishop on d3 bites on granite, and in the case of the KID and Grunfeld, the LSB bites on granite.

 

There is no one size fits all.  Not even the London, which fails to the Modern Defense (1...g6, 2...Bg7, 3...d6, 4...Nd7 or 4...Nc6 and already Black gets in 5...e5!!)

 

I played the Colle for about a year in 2019.  Here is what I had to know to make it effective:

 

Colle System - I played this when Black played an early d5 and Blocked his Bishop, like 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 e6 4.Bd3.

Slow Slav - Played when early ...d5 is played and the Bishop comes out.  1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.e3 Bf5 4.c4 c6 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nh4

Torre Attack - Played against Nf6/g6 and Nf6/e6 setups.  INEFFECTIVE against early ...d5 setups due to 3...Ne4!.  1.d4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6 (or 2...e6, but NOT 2...d5, against 2...d5, white plays 3.e3) 3.Bg5

Dutch - 2.Bg5

1...e6 - You could play the Colle here as this blocks the Bishop, but I personally played 2.e4 and went into the French.

 

This is a lot less theory than playing 1.d4 and 2.c4, but it still is not a single system cookie cutter approach that will utterly fail like your proposed repertoire!

tygxc

King's Indian Defence is most like King's Indian Attack.
Slav Defence is most like Colle Opening.

IntoxicatedOldGeezer
ThrillerFan, why did you stop playing the Colle after a year. Are you a fan of the New York Football Giants?
ThrillerFan
IntoxicatedOldGeezer wrote:
ThrillerFan, why did you stop playing the Colle after a year. Are you a fan of the New York Football Giants?

I'll answer the second question first.  Yes, a huge Giants fan (football) and a huge Mets fan (baseball).

As far as the Colle, while I had decent results with the Torre Attack and the Colle System, I hated the Slow Slav, and against Anti-Colle lines, like 3...Bf5, that is your only choice.  4.c4 is basically White's only move, when 4...c6 is the Slow Slav, and it is not the only move because of any tactical threat, but other moves White's position is just bad with the Black light-squared bishop outside the pawn change.

Against the Slav, I typically play the Exchange, but with e3 played, you really cannot do that because the Bishop is already blocked (in the Exchange Slav, Bishop belongs on f4).

IntoxicatedOldGeezer
ThillerFan, I too have been a huge fan of the G-Men since Y.A. Title and Frank Gifford were still playing. Interesting comments on the use of the Colle. I am trying to learn the Colle from Soltis’ book on the Stonewall-Colle-Torre. I thoroughly enjoyed your articles on the French Defense on the Charlotte Chess Center website, they were very informative.
Truckdrive

Well explained Thriller Fan thank you