Opening Traps: Ruy Lopez Berlin Defense trap

It's not a forced mate in the case of 7.Nh2 , as they can create space with Re1

but it still let's you push the king out into the middle (7.Nh2 Qh4 8.Re1 Qxh2+ 9.Kf1 Qh1+ 10.Ke2 Nd4+), and it should be a won game for black, although precise play is needed with the queen so exposed.

You're right, but still it's gonna be very hard for White...

Rather then hxg4?, I would go for a morphy-like c3/d4, and there are three reasons I would do this.

First, I save a tempo since I don't have to play Re1, because blacks knight on g4 isn't pressuring my pawn.  Second, the move you made, h3, works perfectly with the morphy ruy lopez, preventing me from worrying about Bg4.  Third, black just used two moves.

Honestly I would sac a pawn to achieve the final position before hxg4.

It impresses me that you see hxg4 is unwise, but at the end of the day, there is a reason grandmasters don't play Ng4.

I know this trap's called Fishing pole, but it didn't fit into thread's name D:

so what is white's best line against 4 ... Ng4

obviously pushing the h pawn is a waste of a perfectly good tempo, so what? delay castling against the berlin defense? set up to castle queenside (kind of negates half the positive of the lopez).

or just ignore the knight and develop as normal (though it does seem a dangerous lurker to leave there).

maybe something like this

1. e4   e5
2. Nf3  Nc6
3. Bb5  Nf6
4. O-O  Ng4
5. d4   exd4
6. Nxd4 Nxd4
7. Qxd4

giving white a fair lead in development, but the knight still lurks around the king, waiting to be kicked by f3.

What if instead 6..Nxd4, Bc5, pinning white's knight?

then Be3 breaking the pin, and black's down a piece.

if Nxe3, then fxe3 and the f-file is opened for the rook, and white is still up a piece and has control of both (half) open files.

I like this line, where white tries to develop by pushing the knight, but black swaps a bishop and knight for a rook and a pawn. white could prevent this swap by 8.b4 stopping the bishop from coming to c5, but in doing so he's compromising his pawn structure.

1. e4   e5
2. Nf3  Nc6
3. Bb5  Nf6
4. O-O  Ng4
5. d4   exd4
6. Nxd4 Nxd4
7. Qxd4 b6
8. Nc3  Bc5
9. Qd2  Bxf2+
10. Rxf2 Nxf2
11. Qxf2 O-O

black is lagging in development but has no major structural weaknesses, and can fianchetto his bishop to attack the e-pawn (white will have trouble defending this troublesome pawn, with both the fianchetto-ed bishop to worry about and the rooks/queen that black can chuck on that file).

white has  a domination of the centre and can complete his development by pushing the b-pawn and bringing the dark squared bishop out into the game.

the other line that could come about is something like this

1. e4   e5
2. Nf3  Nc6
3. Bb5  Nf6
4. O-O  Ng4
5. d4   exd4
6. Nxd4 Bc5
7. Be3  Bxd4
8. Bxd4 Nxd4
9. Qxd4 O-O
10. h3

but this is horrible for black, he's getting killed in development and he's forced to waste another tempo retreating the knight.

sorry if my ideas are confusing, i'm trying to understand some opening theory, so i'm trying to do an analysis of something that hasn't been played too often. if someone sees a better line or killer continuation, please post it. My ideas are still pretty raw.

another line black could try is to sac the pawn and try to pressure white into a blunder

1. e4   e5
2. Nf3  Nc6
3. Bb5  Nf6
4. O-O  Ng4
5. d4   exd4
6. Nxd4 h5
7. Nc3  Bc5
8. Be3  Nxd4
9. Bxd4 Bxd4
10. Qxd4 Qh4
11. h3

as long as white doesn't try to take the knight he should be able to defend adequately

i'm playing a couple of games and seeing this sort of thing

More you can look here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqq2OAU3JQk

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You were Black, right?

What you did was correct. You had a spatial advantage there ^^

This is commonly known as the Fishing Pole Trap.