Is White really winning after 8... cxd4 and ...Qxc2!? 10.Rc1 and then ..Qe4+ for example.
Original and Unexplored line in French Winawer
Sort:
Dec 21, 2019
0
#3
simaginfan wrote:
Is White really winning after 8... cxd4 and ...Qxc2!? 10.Rc1 and then ..Qe4+ for example.
No, Simaginfan, it is Black who is winning, it seems. The +- evaluation after Rc1 seems to be wrong.
Dec 21, 2019
0
#5
pfren wrote:
The whole line is not rare at all- more than 180 games played.
8.Bd2 cxd4 9.cxd4 Qxc2 is quite OK for Black. White should continue with 10.Qxg7 Rg8 11.Qh6 with a murky position.
Thanks!
Dec 22, 2019
0
#7
Optimissed wrote:
The position after black's ...c4 is not what poisoned pawn players want . The closed centre gives white the better chances .>>
So don't play ...c4.
Back in the days when I played e4 I played the Winawer from both sides. I played the 6. ..Qc7 variation as black, which I suspect is far more accurate. As white however, I quite liked a4.
In the game you showed, why is black in such a hurry to play c4?
because white will play Bd3 and attack black's g6-Knight
Dec 23, 2019
0
#8
Optimissed wrote:
I think it looks viable because black still has the possibility of c4. So perhaps ...c4 in your variation is a bad move.
I'd like to see how black would be able to play ...c4 once white gets Bd3 in .
Dec 23, 2019
0
#9
pardon me if I missed something ... but I think black is obliged to play 10...c4 before white can play Bd3.
Mike_Aronchuk wrote:
pardon me if I missed something ... but I think black is obliged to play 10...c4 before white can play Bd3.
...Ng6 is not a great idea. For example in the analysis of ...Nbc6 you say at the end that White is just a Pawn up, but after castling he has plenty of compensation that anyone who allows Qxg7 would be comfortable with.
Ne7-g6 ?!
white would black put this knight here at move no 8?
it is commonly known that this move is not good in many other lines, Ng6 has nothing to do and may give temo for white h2-h4-h5...
black should go Nb8-c6, Bd7...standard setup... with (maybe) 0-0-0 , c5-c4, would prove that Bd2 is misplaced
Mike_Aronchuk wrote:
Thinking concretely , how is he then to defend g7 ?
He doesn't!!!😁. The whole idea of playing ...Ne7 combined with ...Qc7 is to give up the g7 Pawn to achieve active play. The whole line is a gambit on Black's part.
Dec 24, 2019
0
#15
I stress : Thinking CONCRETELY .
And the whole point of 8.Bd2 is to prevent black sacing his g-pawn advantageously .
Dec 24, 2019
0
#17
@Simaginfan : Congrats! You finally forced me to seek my PC's guidance . It recommends 9.Qg7 Rg8 10.Qh7 Qe5+ 11.Ne2 with a minute plus . I have to admit that 8.Bd2 does not , by itself , give white an ominous advantage , but an original game with chances for both sides . i am happy that you have devoted time to the study of my (kidding!) variation .
If you prepare it well, then it will be useful in quick games - even I had never seen it before, so, if it's not directly bad, then a useful surprise weapon. I played 4. Nge2 against the Winawer in over the board games for years for surprise value and never lost with it!!
Dec 24, 2019
0
#19
The 9Qg7 line is very similar, especially if black plays 10...d4xc3, but worse for white than the normal posioned pawn line.
I like Geller's 8Bd3 but don't expect that would suprise an opponent, although awhile back there was a WCM here on chess com who was getting it a lot in her games. When checked it out it turned out opponents were hitting her with analysis from a recent, at the time, Quality chess book from Neggi.
I have explored an interesting idea for white against the Winawer poisoned pawn variation . Found a few games in the database with it . Seems to be a good way to fight for a safe plus .
The position after black's ...c4 is not what poisoned pawn players want . The closed centre gives white the better chances .
What do you think of all this ? Share in the comments .