Philidor Defense

Whenever I see the above defense by black (The Philidor) I always eejoy it. My own stats against it are pretty good, and the stats of the database show it to be a high percentage of wins for white (45.3%,28.2%,26.5%). I always feel I have a confortable game against it, and can usually get a big lead in development, or swap off the Queens favourably to keep the black King in the centre. I can see few redeeming features for it, as there are more active ways to defend the e-pawn. Am I missing something? Does it have depths to it that I cannot see? Should I be more respectful of it?

One idea in the Philidor is to occupy c6 with a pawn instead of a knight to support a ..b5 or ..d5 advance, keep white's pieces out of d5, or open the d8-a5 diagonal for the Q.   Another idea is Nbd7, aiming at e5 and c5, which usually becomes an outpost after ..exd4 by black or if white plays dxe5 or d5.

You are right.

I played it for years and my results showed it. I was impressed by a game or two of Nimzowitsch and Bronstein's comment "that some of you might like it forever". Unfortunately Kosten wrote a very good book on the Philidor and I was hooked :)

If White just develops and keeps up a quiet pressure Black cannot do anything. It's a "Rope-A-Dope" sort of opening that might work against an overly aggressive opponent - but why play it if you can play the Sicilian or Alekhine's ? etc

I actually enjoy playing it for fun. 

If White plays 3. d4  then I play the exchange variation ... exd4 and an eventual e5 but if not White plays anything but d4 then I play f5 as a King's Gambit with colors reversed.  It makes for entertaining chess.

Mike

This is why I enjoy the Philidor Defence so much: I was able to beat CM9000.  That's the only opening I can play where I can beat it.  Here's my game--- forget the ending it's a mess--- but the opening and mid game seem solid:

Very interesting game! (And well done for beating CM!) Thank you all for your comments. It seems the exchange variation has some decent ideas behind it, and is quite dynamic for black. I guess if you were to play the non-exchange variation, 3...Bg5 is almost a blunder. Sort of reminds me of Legall's mate, where a seemingly strong pin on the King's Knight is actually a disaster. Maybe something like 3...Nd7 is better, if you aren't going to exchange the pawns.

Now I'm hardly an expert on anything, but according to John Watson, you have the right ideas. There are various ways to play the philidor, one way to play it is with the e5 strongpoints pawn, supported by 3... Nd7. The other ways to play it is by exchanging of the centerpawns, and play it with a small center restraining  plan, with the usuall c6 to come. It´s also possible to play it as a counterattacking scheme, exchanging of the centerpawns and then launch a queenside attack with (In true Philidor spirit!) a piece supported pawnstorm.

The counterattacking scheme sounded so interesting I´m allmost tempted to try the Philidor out myself, it if wheren´t for the abysmal score of it.

 And there's the rub! It is a dangerous thing to place too much emphasis on the database without having good knowledge of the ideas involved, but statistics like that do seem to indicate that players get in to difficult positions with black on a regular basis...

I think, all things considered, being the weak player I am, I'll avoid this one.

Yeah, that's the thing, it isn't a good idea to go to much by databases, but on the other hand, why chose an opening that scores among the lowest of all available defences?

But it´s so interesting, I really would like to play the Philidor, if only I found atleast one database where it scored better.

If you want to reach the "pure" philidor position with black, then you have to change the move order. Christian Bauer recomends 1.e4 d6 2. d4 Nf6 3. Nc3 Nbd7 followed by ...e5 ...Be7 and ...0-0. Still with the idea to play for c6 and b5, or instead of ...b5 then ...a5 followed by ...exd4 and Nc5 with a good outpost for the knight.

Personally i love the Larsen variation with 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 g6. The aim is to get a dragon like structure with an open e-file instead of an open c-file. This ofcourse has it's pro's and con's. The c-file isn't open and thereby can't be used for attacks against the white king, but instead you have the c-pawn which can now be used in the attack.

yeah I like that too.. the open C file is better for rooks than the E file, but the extra pawn push with a pawn still on the C file can get very nice counterplay

That transposition isn't recommended if you want to play the exchange variation of Philidor though.

Part of the problem with databases is that some strong moves in the Philidor were often overlooked including the Philidor exchange variation.  Horowitz in Chess Openings Theory and Practice wrote the exchange was 'incongruous."  However, if you look at a number of established openings, you'll find the Philidor pawn formation in them and by transposing into that line you throw your opponent off without showing much in the way of weaknesses. 

That game I played with CM 9000 resembled an old Benoni pawn structure as did this in another game against the Anand personality:

So, with these two openings successes, I'd say it's worth a try.

Mike

Actually, I found this while researching a Philidor Counter Gambit between Staunton-Owne v. Morphy-Barnes.  They're the Philidor but the offer of the two pawn sacs are the same themes in the Goring variation of the Scotch Game:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1253029

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1012642

And, that c5 advance in my CM games thematically was played out in 1858 in:

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1266584

So, I think that these games are worth study and shows that the Philidor--- when attacking ideas outside the classic guidelines are used--- can be effective and if they're not then the Philidor becomes a drag when used against a better player. 

It might be interesting to see what happens if you play these lines against someone who isn't prepared to meet them.

Mike

anything new in the Philidor?

Statistics are misleading - did you check average ratings as well as the percentage?

The Philidor is solid (safety first, counterplay not for a while if at all). Therefore, it's often the choice of black players facing a higher rated white player.

So, its a solid choice for Black against higher rated players. I love the Philidor because its too flexible. Comparing it with the Petroff, the Philidor's "attacking" potential is somewhat delayed but I can live with that. 

I love the endgame arises from this position.