Pirc VS Czech Pirc - Which Is Better?

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TommyPeebles_07

Hello, 

I've seen many videos from NM Robert Ramirez about the Pirc

He has got a series on the normal pirc, and the czech pirc

Which one is better?

ConfusedGhoul

the normal Pirc is way better, the Czech may also be considered: "unsound"

TommyPeebles_07
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

the normal Pirc is way better, the Czech may also be considered: "unsound"

Thanks for your input. But you're lower rated than me. 

DasBurner
TommyPeebles_07 wrote:
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

the normal Pirc is way better, the Czech may also be considered: "unsound"

Thanks for your input. But you're lower rated than me. 

What does his rating have to do with an openings question?

DasBurner

Anyway, I wouldn't say the Czech is worse or better than the normal Pirc...Usually in Pirc positions where white plays an early f4, black wants to use the c5 break to undermine the center but given that black played c6, playing c5 uses another tempo. So instead of c5, after using the e5 break, an exchange in the center, black will use c6 as a springboard to play b5. Also black won't be playing g6 and bg7 in these lines I don't believe

So like 1. e4 d6 2. d4 nf6 3. nc3 c6 4. f4 qa5 5. Bd3 e5 6. dxe5 dxe5 7. f5 b5

If white doesn't opt to exchange in the center, it just becomes a normal Philidor-esque game 1. e4 d6 2. d4 nf6 3. nc3 c6 4. f4 qa5 5. Bd3 e5 6. nf3 Bg4 7. Be3 nbd7 8. 0-0 be7

BaptistMan
TommyPeebles_07 wrote:

Hello, 

I've seen many videos from NM Robert Ramirez about the Pirc

He has got a series on the normal pirc, and the czech pirc

Which one is better?

 

I don't know???

ConfusedGhoul

It's because I don't play many live chess here, I'm rated more than 1800 on l*chess where I play more actively... My strength isn't 1200

tygxc

Normal Pirc is objectively better than Czech Pirc: better development with ...g6 and ...Bg7 and ...O-O and not yet commiting ...c6 or ...c5 or premature queen move Qa5.
However, the Czech Pirc can surprise your opponent and take him out of his comfort zone and preparation.

ConfusedGhoul

If you want to surprise people and you don't care about playing good openings the Czech Pirc is for you, If you believe in your prep and want to play a sound game of chess then the Normal Pirc is your choice. As White I am prepared against both

Cyanatic09
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

If you want to surprise people and you don't care about playing good openings the Czech Pirc is for you, If you believe in your prep and want to play a sound game of chess then the Normal Pirc is your choice. As White I am prepared against both

This sounds like pretty good advice to me.  I'm far from an expert on anything in chess, let alone openings, but as Black I almost exclusively play the Pirc or the Modern, depending on White's opening moves.   I'm tempted to give the Czech Pirc a shot in an upcoming game , just to see how it goes.  But if you watch the different vids Ramirez has on the Czech Pirc, you'll notice that in some of the quick demonstration games he recorded against actual opponents, he was sometimes taken out of his recommended plan.  That's all well and good for someone of Ramirez' strength and abilities, but I'd be concerned about getting caught on unfamiliar ground.  If you have played and studied the Pirc, there is some good analysis out there ("Pirc Alert",  the "Pirc/Modern Complex", etc.)  that explains favorable lines for Black based on different moves by White.   As somebody already mentioned, if you forgo g6, Bg7, and O-O, you could end up in much less familiar territory.  Still, it's probably worth experimenting with if you don't mind risking a loss.  

 

Karabam
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

the normal Pirc is way better, the Czech may also be considered: "unsound"

Said so a player with a rating of 1100😵‍💫

darkunorthodox88

czech defense works fine if white play normal 3.nc3 4.nf3. but if white plays for 4.f4 qa5 5.bd3 e5 6.nf3 and goes for 0-0, and kh1 (and would happily take your bishop pair if you go bg4, and just play be3 and wait for a timely h3) then black really suffers for the lack of space. This is a philidor where white got the desirable f4 thrust really early and all black got is a clumsy queen on a5. in some lines, black also got to develop the queen bishop without the d7 knight blocking it, but this just means, white can collect the bishop pair, and in such a position, bishop pair AND lack of space is too much a disadvantage. 

pirc is not my cup of team but it is a respectable defense. objectively, the regular pirc is just better. 

ConfusedGhoul

#11 why can't people just read? I said I pretty much never play rated on chess.com and indeed I'm rated 1900 rapid and 2000 classical on l*chess... if Magnus Carlsen were to make a new chess.com account his rating would be of 1000, does that mean he's a 1000? No because he just doesn't play there that shouldn't be hard to understand

darkunorthodox88
ConfusedGhoul wrote:

#11 why can't people just read? I said I pretty much never play rated on chess.com and indeed I'm rated 1900 rapid and 2000 classical on l*chess... if Magnus Carlsen were to make a new chess.com account his rating would be of 1000, does that mean he's a 1000? No because he just doesn't play there that shouldn't be hard to understand

what does any of that have to do with what i said?

ConfusedGhoul

#13 nothing, the person that said I shouldn't give my opinion because I'm 1100 in a website I don't use thought it was funny to delete their comment

Ashsensei309

Ive been playing the Czech pic a lot and I agree with the above comments. I've also won a lot of games with it, but as a general rule if there is no pinning of the Nc3 knight available then I don't go for the signature Qa5. Ramirez also mentions the same thing in his games with it as it is just a waste of time to do this.  Also if white castles short you can find your queen doing bugger all on the wrong side of the board. I agree the classical pirc is sounder, but sound is not always what you want. Its just a question of flexibility as to how white plays. 

kwikarlo

Check out the games of GM Akobian playing the Czech pirc. It’s definitely playable even at the GM level. As NM Ramirez says it’s about getting to the middle game safely so you can just “play chess”.

GeorgeWyhv14

normal pirc

Oultonix
I’m been studying the pirc for a little while and I would say the main line has better chances against higher rated players/longer time controls.

The Czech Pirc becomes clumsy well at least for me if White knows what they’re doing and has time to think.

Czech is fun in quicker time controls.
ThrillerFan
TommyPeebles_07 wrote:

Hello, 

I've seen many videos from NM Robert Ramirez about the Pirc

He has got a series on the normal pirc, and the czech pirc

Which one is better?

 

 

Neither!