Playing 1.e5 as Black for the first time, your recommendations?

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Dolphin27

Apparently we all must play 1...e5 as a basic building block of our chess educations.

Yet they also tell us to not study opening theory in favor of tactics, endgame, and visualization exercises.

Therefore as I start playing 1...e5 I am tempted to find some kind of offbeat, little used, and non-theoretical reply to the Ruy Lopez to fulfull both these requirements, but if I did so, would I somehow be defeating the purpose of playing 1...e5 in the first place by not playing main lines?

What do you personally use against the Ruy Lopez and why? What are the characteristics of the variation you use against the Ruy Lopez, how theoretical is it, and how much do you enjoy playing it compared to other openings?

TheDrevland

the first thing a 1.e4 e5 must to is looking at the kings gambit. if you are ok facing the very sharp kings gambit (which will happen often) then its time to dig deeper into 1.e4 e5.

i recommend pickin a simple answer to the ruy lopez because you will not face it that often and when you does he usually plays an early deviation. for example i used a ton of time learning the marshall gambit but only got two marshalls that year and they were both antimarshallines declining the gambit.I play the berlin defence myself. despite no queens it leads to a complicated and sharp game where both players can win unless white play to avoid the berlin endgameline and goes for something more drawish which he actually often do but its still a game of chess where he can be outplayed. i know the berlin well and white cant sidestep it in a good way. this way you can forget about ruy lopez after a little preparation and start looking at the other lines white throws at you which is most of your 1.e4 e5 games

Dolphin27

Hm, so the Ruy Lopez really isn't that common? I just thought because it's very popular at grandmaster level it would be popular at club level as well.

I don't have a problem facing the King's Gambit at all, I'm mainly playing 1...e5 because I've read from several different IMs and GMs that playing it is essential to get a solid foundation, sort of a chess education. So I'm not really playing it to win games so much as to improve.

The Berlin defense sounds like a facinating opening, however I don't know if it fits the style I like to play, which is to keep the queens on and go for kingside attacks and everything.

I was looking at the Marshall Attack, but as you point out, how often can Black actually get it? Also it seems too theoretical, I was just looking at a video by Jan Gustaffson about it. At first it looked like the kind of active and attacking opening I like to play but then he starts talking about how theoretical it is, and I'm just like no way, I can't play this. It seems like the Sicilian Dragon in a way, a whole lot of theory to learn for something you're barely ever even going to get on the board.

Maybe I should look back at the other guys similar to Marshall like Jaques Mieses and see what they played against it. Perhaps there is something similar but less theoretical.

TheDrevland

yeah the marshall gambit is fun to play when you get it which is almost never. maybe something like 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 is more your taste? its a complicated attacking game which is hard to avoid. the white answer d3 is not as safe for him as many people think. My friend which is a master plays the open ruy lopez and has a huge +score with it. the ruy lopez has so many choices im sure you find something you like despite the exchange lopez is a bit annoying to get faced with but you cant have it all in any chessopening i guess:)

TheDrevland

well in my experience i dont get much ruy lopez and when i get it its usually a sideline with a very early d3 or Qe2 or something. maybe you will get it more often than me, you can play a few games and see what you get

Inyustisia

if you want something slightly offbeat against the ruy, i guess i'd go with the cozio (3..Nge7) which also has the benefit of avoiding the exchange variation.

nowadays i play the open ruy (5..Nxe4) and the breyer (9..Nb8) but these are not offbeat systems.

lolurspammed

You will see the Ruy 10 times as much as you will see the Kings Gambit.

MainlineNovelty

Do yourself a favour and don't play the Schliemann...Black is playing for a draw and nothing more in several main lines. Personally I play the Marshall and Gajewski (Chigorin with ...d5) Gambits, although there are a number of deviations along the way to them (d3, Qe2, d4 gambits, etc.) The Gajewski is sharp and pretty offbeat (it was invented 10- years ago I think), but again you'll need to learn all of White's sidelines (which are pretty easy to prepare for)

The deferred Steinitz (3...a6 4 Ba4 d6!?) is also interesting - very little theory, easy to play if you know the key ideas, lots of people misplay it as White, and you avoid a lot of sidelines

Jenium

I used to play 1...e5. I eventually gave it up because the Ruy caused too much pain. I found the sound main lines too closed and too difficult to play for my taste. So I tried all sorts of side lines (the open Ruy for quite a long time, an obscure-Ne7-line [forgot the name], the Archangelsk-variation etc ...), but I found it rather hard to equalize with Black. More often than not, White had a solid advantage... In addition, White's option of playing the exchange variation was another thing I wasn't too excited about...

I guess if you want to play 1...e5, you probably need to come to grips with the strategically complex Ruy mainlines. Or enjoy defending the Berlin defense.

Jenium
TheDrevland wrote:

i recommend pickin a simple answer to the ruy lopez because you will not face it that often

I guess that depends on your opposition. In my range (around 1700) about 40-50% of the e4-players continued with the Ruy. 

Goob63

I rarely got Ruys around 1300. I got the Italian a ton. Which sucked cause I actually like playing it as black, but just barely got a chance. And only ever got my Marshall gambit once. I looked into the archangel variation, but never got a chance to play it before I got fed up and went back to the French and Sicilian stuff. Archangel throws your bishops on c5 and b7, seemed pretty nice to me. As for the Kings gambit just go with d5. Not the strongest thing in the world but pretty simple

I_Am_Second

I dont play 1...e5, so i have nothing to contribute to this discussion, or pretty much any discussion.

kingsrook11

You have a rating of 1935. I would have thought you already had enough of an idea of the basics to play whatever you want in reply to e4.

Dolphin27

Thanks for the responses everyone, wow there's such a wealth of different variations Black can choose from.

I think though I'm just going to go with what FiveofSwords said and play the Chigorin. After all, if I'm playing the Ruy Lopez to improve my chess and get the Ruy Lopez experience I might as well play a main line. The open Ruy Lopez actually looks more appealing to me but I think I should play a closed variation since you're supposed to play openings that you wouldn't normally pick in order to get better.

TitanCG

I've played 1...e5 for a while and just went into the Philidor hoping to cut out theory. But that isn't for everyone. 

I preferred to avoid lines like the Marshall, Chigorin and other stuff simply because I rarely ever got them. Even when I attempted the Berlin (a bad idea) I ran into d3/Qe2 stuff anyway. I like the idea of the deferred Steinitz although I'm sure you can get away with the immediate d6 as well. 

I know players like Alekhine played the deferred Steinitz so there are lots of classical games available for viewing.