Loomis, nice explanation.
By the way, in the first game, White could have refuted 7...d6? with the tactic 8.Qa4+!, picking off the bishop. But the more accurate 7...Bxc3 8.bxc3 d6 9.O-O leads to the same final position so that doesn't change the verdict on 5.e4 vs 5.Nf3.
Erik, if you want to try out the Two Knight's Tango, Silman has an article discussing it and there's a short video series on it at chesslecture.com.
By the way, in the first game, White could have refuted 7...d6? with the tactic 8.Qa4+!, picking off the bishop. But the more accurate 7...Bxc3 8.bxc3 d6 9.O-O leads to the same final position so that doesn't change the verdict on 5.e4 vs 5.Nf3.
Thanks for pointing that out, I am reproducing the games from memory so I probably just mixed up the move order.
5. e4 is more popular ethan 5. Nf3 (at least in my database) and I can't figure out why. Maybe someone who is more of a database whiz than I am can tell me the merits of that move. For now, I'm sticking with Nf3.
"In Orlov's book 3 Nf3 is implied to be a superior move to 3 Nc3 since it leads to a position that is an inferior variation of the Nimzo Indian for Black."
My understanding is that 3. Nf3 is theoretically better than 3. Nc3. But practically it depends on whether you want to play any kind of Nimzo. I find Nimzo players to be really good at Nimzo type positions, even inferior ones. It may behoove me to figure out what I'm doing against the Nimzo since it is somewhat popular. At the moment though, I consider the line I gave as a mild surprise to the Tango player because ....
"Erik, if you want to try out the Two Knight's Tango, Silman has an article discussing"
I don't believe this article goes into the 5. Nf3 variations. Possibly because the right way for black to handle 5. Nf3 is 5. ... d6 transposing to a King's Indian Defense. Here I would be comfortable playing the King's Indian. I poked around the internet for material on 5. Nf3 and there is hardly any there, so this is potentially a hole in the typicaly Tango prep.
Thanks, Reb. I'm almost suprised that I'm right that 5. e4 is not a good move -- it's given as mainline by some people (well, people who are advocating for the Tango).
I'm guessing 5. Nf3 scores better when black tries to force the Tango with 5. ... Ng6 than when black transposes to a KID with 5. ... d6. Of course, I've been wrong before. :-).
5....Ng6 = 37% and 5...d6 = 43% but based on a few games so perhaps not too reliable
Chessbase statistics also support that 5.Nf3 fares better than 5.e4. First, note its win/loss stats are better. Then, note that the average player who chooses 5.Nf3 is stronger than the average player who chooses 5.e4. Finally, note that the performance rating of those who choose 5.Nf3 is exceptional.
Also interesting is 5.h4. You chose that as your sixth move, but the strongest players seem to choose that as their fifth move. Hmm...
An interesting Two Knights Tango game in the line 5.h4 h5...
5...h5 6.Bg5 Ng6 7.e3 - I think the idea of 6.Bg5 over 6.Nf3 is flexibility. The bishop obviously belongs on g5 where as you say the pin is hard to break. But the knight... well, in some games he deploys to f3, in others he deploys to g3 and attacks the h5 pawn. In general giving your opponent less information and remaining flexible is a good idea because in every line he calculates he has to consider both options.
The choice between 7.e3 and 7.Nf3 seems more difficult. With both choices you reduce your flexibility, but only slightly. I guess 7.e3 gives Black more chances to go wrong, like 7...Bb4 8.Nge2. Or maybe the first master who reached this position chose 7.e3 and won and now everyone wants to repeat that win. :)
As someone who has played the Tango, I'd say the key line to really mess with a Tango player's head is 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nf3 e6 4. a3!
By the way, in your first game, I don't understand black's Bb4. When I play the Tango, I put that bishop on c5 if I can and only put it on b4 if white has prevented Bc5. But maybe that's just me.
For the best info on the Tango available on the web, check out GM Joel Benjamin's four part series on it at Jeremy Silman's web page:
http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_opng_shrtcts/archive.html
--Fromper
Froper. I agree that 3.Nf3 can be a spoiler. But I've had a big of fun with an obscure 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 Nc6. 3.Nf3 e5?! White can certainly gain an edge with 4.d5 but in practice often falls into lines where Black has a nice attack.
http://compulsiontomove.blogspot.com/2013/03/betwixt-tango-and-budapest-gambit.html
Of course you have to be prepared to play the Budapest.
The Two Knights Tango is a rarely played defense against 1. d4 but it can be tricky to face since it is unexpected. A player I face frequently uses it and so I have worked on what are good lines against it.
First, an example that did not turn out so well for white:
The next time around white seizes on a new idea (check the move list for a few alternate moves):