Portuguese Opening: 1. e4, e5 2. Bb5

Does anyone ever use this opening?  Someone played it against me, and I was completely lost.  I'd like to know more about it, but can't seem to find much.

Thanks Karpark!  I did play c6 and he backed off, wasting a tempo.  I didn't realize I had made a correct move.

"I didn't realize I had made a correct move."

OMG, that's a pleasant answer :-)

Well, I guess anyone can offer dogma as an answer and try to sound right.

I am not saying your dogma is all that wrong but it is not as simple as that. There is a very good database book available on the Portuguese for download. Just Google "database chess books" and you should hit it

There is a reason why 2.Nf3 is the best move.

Interesting.

I wouldn't call it 'dogma'. For a start, I wrote "I think ..." rather than "I know ...". That said I imagine that most stronger players (like phren) would agree that 2. Bb5 is dubious for exactly the very obvious reasons I've given, not because I "sound right", but let's hear from more of them and see if any agree with you. It is you being dogmatic because you think that this move must be good just because there is a database book about it. Why don't you give us some analysis showing us just how good this opening is? In the meantime, while I'm waiting for your presentation of the best ways for white to meet c6 to be followed shortly by d5, I think I'll just chill out, and let my karma run over your dogma.

Oh dear, let's not quarrel over this.  I very much appreciate every single comment that has been made in this thread.  Karpark's 2. ...c6 did work well for me in my game, and next time this opponent plays the Portuguese (and he will), I shall probably try out that lovely response from IM pfren, who has been very helpful to me in these forums in the past.

Thanks everyone.  By the way, don't bother looking for the game, as it is not on this website.

Oh my. It’s not my intention to argue with anyone….who is right that is. After all it wouldn’t be an argument would it??

Any who. What you would or wouldn’t call your initial post is entirely up to you but I would point out that you did NOT say “I think”, what you said was “You would think”. This is you expressing a point (all be it dogmatic) on the observation that c6 and d5 control the center and wastes a tempo.

So this leads to wonder where on earth you get from my post that I at all believe that Portuguese Opening is a good opening? Maybe because I said there was a very good book on the Portuguese available for download perhaps? Yes, I said that but you assume that because I think it is a good book that everything in it is quite sound. No. This is an incorrect assumption on your part and is predicated on knowing what I meant by ‘good’. Unless you number mind reading amongst your many skills, you do not. The database book is good in the sense that it is thorough.

On the subject of looking to strong players for advice. I have no doubt a strong player like pfren will trumpet loudly that the Portuguese Opening is a weak opening and at his level it probably is. The thing is though many of us here who will read this thread will never get to his level any time soon if ever. So how is such advice from a player rated 2331 to someone rated 1108 less (in this case) all that practical if they do not have the technic to follow on & up with the advice given?

This leads me to my last thought. It was not my intention to offend you. After all, I did say I agreed with your (dogmatic) thinking but that I just didn’t think it was that simple. I rarely go to better players for advice because I like to ask questions, as in this case what is the point of 1.e4 e5 2.Bb5? I had to wonder though, it was Alapin who purported that in some cases in the Lopez a bishop on a5 is sometimes stronger than on b6 and this was the thinking behind his 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 Bb4, maybe the same thought applies to the Port Opening? This is what I meant by things maybe not being that simple.

Dillydream, I have a pdf of the database book in question. If you want it send me a P:M. If not, no biggy.

@Hadron:  Thank you for your offer to send me the pdf of the database book, but no thanks.  (a) I have slow internet, so it would probably not be possible for me to download it.  (b) I have not reached the stage where I find database books to be useful.

The portion of your e-mail that is addressed to me is appreciated, but the remainder of your e-mail content is not really welcome on my thread.  It puts me in mind of one of those ugly little men who live under bridges.

What about the Bulgarian Ruy Lopez, Black usually crushes White in that line.

Thanks NimzoPatzer.  I'll look it up.

@NimzoPatzer:  I looked it up, but it doesn't quite seem to fit with the moves my opponent likes to make.

@ dillydream

Just had a look at chess.com's Game Explorer for you on this one. You can look there at the number of games played at the top level (at least those for which chess.com has records) to see the popularity and success of particular opening moves in statistical terms. Rounding up or down the percentages for the moves we have been discussing for the Portuguese, we have the following:

1. e4  e5

2. Bb5 

This move in this position has 56 logged games with 27% recorded as victory for white, 23% as draws and 50% as wins for black. Given that those players with white will have consciously chosen and prepared for 2. Bb5, this a pretty damning statistic. The most popular choice for white (after 1. e4, e5) is, as we all know, 2. Nf3. This move in this position has by way of contrast 161,168 logged games of which 37% were wins for white, 37% were draws and 26% were wins for black.

Of those 56 games in which white chose 2. Bb5 (the Portuguese), 25 players with black opted for the move I suggested, 2 ... c6, with the other 31 opting for a variety of choices none with quite as much success for black in percentage terms, though mostly with better results for black than for white. In those games where black did go for 2...c6, white won 20%, 16% were draws and black won a whopping 64%. Most of those continued with ...d4 for black either immediately afterwards or a little later.

I know statistics aren't everything and that our games (certainly mine) are not played at the top level, but in this case I think the indications are pretty clear. 2 ...c6 is perhaps the best counter to the Portuguese and that this opening should not give you anything to worry about unduly. That only 56 players of the white pieces chose 2.Bb5 (after 1.e4 e5), with such poor results, as opposed to 161,168 who chose 2. Nf3, speaks (at least to me) volumes.

@Karpark:  Wow!  Thanks for going to all that effort!  I probably should use Game Explorer more myself.  Those results are very interesting and seem to show quite clearly that 2. ... c6 is indeed a great move.  I really do appreciate your post.  Just what I needed.  Thanks again.

No problem. I got curious about 2. Bb5 myself after reading your initial post. The info was very easy to find and it only took a few minutes to extract and write up. Yes, Game Explorer is useful for exactly this kind of thing. 

I've been playing this opening for the last couple of years with good results, even against stronger players than myself. I've never seen other players play the opening

Last sunday I played the opening against the danish IM Mikkel Antonsen. I lost the game, but it was equal until move 49, where I played a bad move  

2166 games in my database where I did play the "Portuguese". Quite some experience.

After 1. e4 e5 2. Bb5 the best moves for blacks are 2...c6 & 2...a6. 2...Nf6 is doubtfull cause of 3. d4 called originally Gambito Portuense (Oporto Gambit) mentioned usually as Portuguese Gambit. 2...Nc6 is mostly good but weird opening positions may arrive when whites don't transpose to the Spanish by 3. Nf3, and whites usually know those positions better.