Problem with the Italian Game - Chess Forums

Telurides

Jun 22, 2011

0

#1

I enjoy playing the Italian game when I play as white. I've been playing chess (seriously) for about four months, 20-50 games a week with my traveling companion who is a pretty solid player, while on vacation in Southeast Asia. When I play the Italian game I am generally looking for the Fried Liver Attack, the Lolli Attack or the Evans Gambit. I run into trouble, however, when play proceeds as follows:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 d6
4. (insert any move here) ...Be6

So far I've tried responding by retreating my white bishop to Bb3 so that if he takes with Bxb3 I can recapture with axb3 and open up my rook, and by pushing my bishop to Bb5 to pin his knight, but the first way seems sub-optimal and the second loses me a tempo... if I'm going to use my bishop to pin his knight I ought to just do it outright, not spend two moves to get there. I've also tried exchanging bishops, which doubles up his pawns on the king's file, but that means getting rid of my white bishop very early and I'd prefer not to have to do that.

If any of you could offer some insight to this position I would be mightily grateful. Thank you.

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quadrewple

Jun 22, 2011

0

#2

Telurides wrote:

I enjoy playing the Italian game when I play as white. I've been playing chess (seriously) for about four months, 20-50 games a week with my traveling companion who is a pretty solid player, while on vacation in Southeast Asia. When I play the Italian game I am generally looking for the Fried Liver Attack, the Lolli Attack or the Evans Gambit. I run into trouble, however, when play proceeds as follows:
1. e4 e5
2. Nf3 Nc6
3. Bc4 d6
4. (insert any move here) ...Be6

So far I've tried responding by retreating my white bishop to Bb3 so that if he takes with Bxb3 I can recapture with axb3 and open up my rook, and by pushing my bishop to Bb5 to pin his knight, but the first way seems sub-optimal and the second loses me a tempo... if I'm going to use my bishop to pin his knight I ought to just do it outright, not spend two moves to get there. I've also tried exchanging bishops, which doubles up his pawns on the king's file, but that means getting rid of my white bishop very early and I'd prefer not to have to do that.

If any of you could offer some insight to this position I would be mightily grateful. Thank you.

http://www.chess.com/images/chestnut/misc/fond_postbit.gif) repeat scroll center top #f4f3e8; border: 0px 1px 1px none solid solid -moz-use-text-color #ffffff #ffffff;">

As you probably have heard, a good general principle is to not move the same piece twice in the opening. I wouldn't do the retreat because while it opens the a file, that is a precious move that could be used for development, and if your opponent realizes that you don't want to trade bishops, he may well delay taking for the sake of development. I don't know that much advice can be given here if you've got your mind set on the Italian game. If you want to keep a strong bishop on c5, try the Vienna Game: 1.e4 - e5 2. Nc3 - anything except b5 3. Bc5

I don't think you'll see a bishop exchange very often if you play the Vienna Game, or at least I never have. If it matters to you at all, I just engine checked, and you go from about +.3 to -.3 if you do Bb5 or Bb3 on move 5 (as opposed to exchanging bishops) for the variation you just gave. Half a pawn difference isn't unsubstantial, especially against strong players.

Telurides

Jun 22, 2011

0

#3

quadrewple wrote:

If it matters to you at all, I just engine checked, and you go from about +.3 to -.3 if you do Bb5 or Bb3 on move 5 (as opposed to exchanging bishops) for the variation you just gave. Half a pawn difference isn't unsubstantial, especially against strong players.

True, not insubstantial at all. I haven't been using a chess engine to check my moves, so thank you for letting me know which of the options is stronger in theory. When he plays it again I'll simply exchange bishops and abandon the Italian game.

Thanks all for your input, I appreciate it. Also, I'll have a look at the Philidor and try to find a good way to respond to that. Thanks for the heads-up.

Titos75

Jun 22, 2011

0

#4

3...d6 is not as good as you make it sound. Just play 4.d4 and 4...Be6 won't even be possible any more (because of 5.d5). If he takes 4...exd4 just play 5.Nxd4 and you'll have a solid position.

Telurides

Jun 22, 2011

0

#5

Titos75 wrote:

3...d6 is not as good as you make it sound. Just play 4.d4 and 4...Be6 won't even be possible any more (because of 5.d5). If he takes 4...exd4 just play 5.Nxd4 and you'll have a solid position.

Thanks Titos, good point. End result still pushes me out of the Italian game, but I need to learn to deal with that anyway at some point.

kwaloffer

Jun 22, 2011

0

#6

Telurides wrote:

Titos75 wrote:

3...d6 is not as good as you make it sound. Just play 4.d4 and 4...Be6 won't even be possible any more (because of 5.d5). If he takes 4...exd4 just play 5.Nxd4 and you'll have a solid position.

Thanks Titos, good point. End result still pushes me out of the Italian game, but I need to learn to deal with that anyway at some point.

The name of whatever position you currently have on the board should be the least of your worries, I think :-)

Telurides

Jun 22, 2011

0

#7

kwaloffer wrote:

The name of whatever position you currently have on the board should be the least of your worries, I think :-)

Sarcasm aside, it's not the name that I enjoy / am concerned about, it's the attributes generally inherent to the Italian game, being early aggression and pressure on the f7 square, along with the fact that it's the system I'm currently most comfortable with.

With that said, yes d4 seems the best (or at least obvious) fourth move at this point.

Neanderthal9

Jun 24, 2011

0

#8

If you really want to try and stay in an Italian type position then 4.c3 is good and makes Be6 bad.

bresando

Jun 24, 2011

0

#9

Not exactly, since B often delays Nc6 (or play c6) in the philidor. I think B is worse here than in a regular philidor