Queen's Pawn, Chigorin variation.

I have run into this from the black side of the board a couple of times recently.  I looked it up, and it is Chigorin's Variation of the Queen's Pawn Opening.  White in both of my games has then played Bf4 and and e3 and then launched a brutal kingside attack, either leaving the king in the center of the board or castling queenside.  In one game we are in the endgame and I am fighting for a draw.  In the other we are early middle game and I am holding my own, but somewhat cramped.  I have the feeling that if met properly this may actually be a bad strategy, as I think there are king safety issues, buy I lack to skill to prove it.  Does anyone have any advice on how to meet this opening?  Please confine any lines of analysis to the first 10 moves, as I still have an ongoing game that is fairly early in the middle game.

Maybe Chigorin had something to do with this, since he had his hand in lots of opening sidelines.

But I generally think of Chigorin's main contribution to Q-pawn theory as 1.d4d5 2.c4Nc6.  The whole of the "Chigorin Defense" springs from this, and goes in and out of fashion at higher levels.

The line you give, I know as the "Veresov."  White follows Bg5 with a reversed Ruy, which doesn't really pin the knight as meaningfully, owing to the different position of the king.  It's regarded as pretty toothless if you know how to follow a few lines.

Against white main line, with Nf3 and e3, a setup with Nbd7, c6, and a kingside fianchetto scores very well for black.  White has another popular line with an early f3, and I don't remember ever hearing what to play against that.

Mostly, the purpose here was to drop in the accepted name for the line, to make it easier for you to look up your theory on Google.

Because Nc3 blocks the c pawn (preventing the center attacking c4), black doesn't have to worry about his center, so white is pinning all of his hopes on either a quick, effective e4 (which black doesn't have to allow) or an all out k side attack, which isn't so justified because his central position is no better than black's he just has a couple more pieces out in a semi closed position?

Or white could play more cautiously, but then black may take the initiative in the center with ...c5.

Isn't that the Velmirovic Attack?

Chigorin is:

1. d4 d5

2. c4 Nf6

 Thank you for the feedback.  The name struck me as odd as well.  I usually think of Chigorin's opening as a defense in 1 d4 d5 2 c4 as well.  But when I plug this into the database at 365chess.com it comes up with this name.  Perhaps the Veresov is only if white continues with Bg5?  Bf4 is also played here, which is what I have run into in my games.  The idea of the king's side fianchetto sounds excellent, however.  On the issues I had in both my games was that I played the queenside bishop to f5 and then closed it out of the pawn chain with e6.  In the kingside attacks that followed the bishop seemed very awkwardly placed.

if you follow the main line on the openings explorer, after 10 moves the games are 50-50 and stockfish has the game at +0.23 at depth=16. sounds pretty even to me

I agree with Mr Teacup.

On the Veresov lines with an early f3 I think the recommended response is a quick c5.  I am not 100% sure, it is a long time since I have looked at this stuff.  It certainly seems the thing to do, interfere with white building a huge center and open the position while he is playing moves like f3.

1 d4 d5 2 Nc3 (Nf6 3 Bg5) may well be inspired by 1 d4 d5 2 c4 Nc6 (3 Nf3 Bg4), but Chigorin himself never played it. In fact he only played 1 d4 two or three times in his career.

I played a cool QGD Chigorin game here on this site... I found a piece sacrifice on move 8!

https://www.chess.com/daily/game/61959468

 Nice game! but isnt this game a reti converted to a queen's gambit declined, Chigorin defense, because of Nc6? it seems that your opponent didnt follow any particular line but a combination of defenses?  if he played bf5 that might be considered a baltic defense? i'm kind of new to opening theory but his move 4. dxc3 seems to be a blunder and you end up chasing his N all over the board forcing him to abandon development. typically in a queen's gambit declined you would move to e6 and pick up the pawn at c4 at your leisure. he made it easier for you with the N//b exchange. i think he pretty much sealed his fate by not playing e6 early on (instead of dxc4) trapping his b and forcing his q to get involved too early. thanks for the post- good teaching points! btw- not sure if my analysis is correct but it made me think!

Seems that this is now called the Jobava London System opening popularized by Simon Williams (Ginger GM).

But many just think of it as a Veresov variation, and quite a few sites (including chess.com) just consider it a Queens Pawn Opening Chigorin variation. Two such examples:

https://www.chess.com/openings/Queens-Pawn-Opening-Chigorin-Variation-2...Nf6-3.Bf4

https://www.365chess.com/opening.php?m=6&n=4507&ms=d4.d5.Nc3.Nf6.Bf4&ns=7.8.80.55.4507

No, you are wrong too!

The Chigorin is 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 or 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6

1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nf6 is the dubious Marshall Defense (not to be confused with either of the Marshall Gambits, the one for Black in the Ruy Lopez or White in the Triangle Defense)

And I saw someone else post 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6, what this is depends on White's next move:

3.Bg5 - Veresov Attack

3.Bf4 - Jobava-Prie Attack

Then there are unusual responses like 3.e3, 3.g3, 3.Nf3, etc.

The thing about the Chigorin is you have to play very energetically to avoid getting a worse position. Its best to learn the theory very well as its easy to go wrong with black....although I have to admit in my best win in the Chigorin I didnt play the opening perfectly. Incidentally it was my first in against an expert rated player.

Well, to be strictly accurate, that should be 1.d4 d5 2.c4 Nc6 or 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Bg4 with a potential transposition after 3.c4 Nc6. Chigorin never played 1.d4 d5 2.Nf3 Nc6.

It is not based on what Chigorin himself played.  Any book on the Chigorin will cover 2...Nc6, not 2...Bg4.

And openings are not always based on what a player plays.  In fact, I can think of one case where the player an entire system was named after NEVER played it.

Oscar Panno is the player they named the Panno after, which is a variation of the King's Indian Defense.

There are 2 lines which were named after Panno, and one of the two (I do not recall which one), he NEVER played.  The other he did with some regularity.

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.f3 O-O 6.Be3 Nc6

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.g3 Bg7 4.Bg2 O-O 5.Nf3 d6 6.O-O Nc6

If you really want to get technical, while books cover it, strictly speaking, 2.Nf3 anything is not a Chigorin unless it is followed up by c4.