Question about Ruy Lopez opening

So what is the deal with this move. I mean, from my prospective it actually kind of seems like black is ahead. But people say "black's pawn structure is messed up."

To those people I'd like to ask "how so?"

I'd really appreciate if someone could go into great detail solving this delima I am in. So when black chases the bishop away for a second time, is that a good move or bad move?

Black is hardly ahead, white's bishop is very comfy, and black's position is hardly anything. That f pawn is such a tasty meal for pieces. But it's still an even game, such are most openings.

I had the same question a few days ago. I thought that since I was moving my bishop multiple times in a row,that it was a bad opening. But black "wastes" moves too by attacking you with pawns. And now your bishop is watching that f7 square nicely. However I stopped playing the Ruy Lopex and just move my bishop to c4 instead.

That's that italian! Great opening, love it. I hate playing the Ruy Lopez too.

Forcing a piece to move several times does nothing if it does not help you to gain time to develop your pieces. Black did not gain anything, moreover, black weakens his queen side temporary, (temporary because those pawn will probably help in the queen side attack) and it gives a chance for white to play a4 if he wants. (That is not the best move, but white has more possibility, and that is always good) And look at the board, after Bb3 white developed 2 pieces, and black only one.

The idea is that the white bischop is actually better placed on b3 than on c4. 

The reason the bishop is better placed on b3 than on c4 is that in both Italian game and Ruy Lopez white is trying to build a strong center with e4 and d4. . However if white would play d4 with the bischop on c4 black could counter with exd4 followed by d5 "forking" both the e4 pawn and the c4 bishop forcing white to take on d5 (with the e4 pawn) and allowing black to equalize. 

If the bishop is on b3 the central trust d4 is much stronger because the counter blow d5 does not attack the bishop and thus does not force white to take on d5. Instead he should be able to play e5 and get a superior game. 

Do the moves a6 and b5 help black ? It does in a way and it allowed black to develop counterplay on the queenside easier than in the Italian game. However it also weakens the queenside a little and sometimes white players can use that. There are both games with briliant black play on the center and queenside and games where white takes over the initiative on the queenside. 

Ruy Lopez thought that 2...Nc6 was bad, and produced detailed analysis supporting his contention. That's why the opening bears his name. Ruy Lopez preferred 2...d6.

Ruy Lopez was wrong. Your brother, too, is wrong.

Emanuel Lasker thought the Morphy Defense was a waste of time, preferring 3...Nf6. Lasker's preference was Morphy's choice until 1859 (with two exceptions), but both moves are playable for Black and are employed by top Grandmasters today.

This is just a position. 

White is not better and black is not better. 

One notable difference came to light in my last round Chicago Open game. My opponent played the Ruy Lopez, and in ten moves we reached a position from the Italian game except I had the extra move b7-b5. However, after a trade of light square bishops on b3, my a6 pawn was very weak and required babysitting!

So I learned from experience that these moves can harm Black's queenside.

Isn't white better here? As moonie pointed out, black has played a6-b5 much too soon, which causes problems.

Whatever black does, next c3 and d4 will give an initiative to white. A later Na5 will be met by Bc2. If black plays Nf6 first, o-o is a good defense for the e4 pawn.

If black plays Na5 later, Bc2 is strong, occupying the b1-h7 diagonal with attacking options (Qd3!, with threat of e5)

The b1 knight can be developped d2-f1-e3 (g3)-f5 

good luck, Maarten

Blacks pawn structure is messed up. If White play A4! The Black pawn structure is very weak. I also play the Ruy Lopez i like 4. Bxc6 - the Exchange variation but i also like the White concept with A4

michael101800 wrote:

Believe it or not, that is actually the main line of the Ruy Lopez!

This is NOT the main Line in Ruy Lopez. 4... Nf6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Re1 b5 Is the Main line

4...b5 is a weak move.  There is no threat the Black's e-pawn at this time as taking the Knight on c6 and then the pawn on e5 fails to ...Qd4.  Black shouldn't worry about this until he absolutely has to for the following reasons:

1) In the position in the OP, it's hard for Black to play 5...Nf6 now as 6.Ng5 is a problem for Black.

2) If Black doesn't have to play b5, he shouldn't, because it actually weakens the Queenside.  White can get in a timely a4 to soften up b5, and if Black takes on a4, then after the recapture, Black's a6 pawn is very weak.

Therefore, 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 should be answered by 4...Nf6.  After White castles (5.O-O), Black should answer with 5...Be7, so that he is ready to castle whenever necessary, and the Rook will cover f7, so no Bb3/Ng5 tricks.  Now after 6.Re1, the Rook guards the e-pawn, and so taking the Knight followed by the pawn on e5 truly is a threat, and so only NOW does Black need to play 6...b5.  After 7.Bb3 d6 8.c3 O-O 9.h3, you have the main tabitha of the Ruy Lopez, and Black has a ton of options here at move 9 (9...Na5, 9...Nb8, and 9...Bb7 are the "big 3", but then there's also 9...h6, 9...Qd7, and 9...Re8 as well)

What are the alternatives of the move 4. Ba4?

Will he retreat the bishop to c4, d3 or e2? If you want to play Bd3 then might you reconsider your positional understanding of chess openings. If you play Bc4, why haven't you done that immediately? You have lost a tempo in comparison to a normal Italian opening.

Be2 is the only alternative worth mentioning, because it prevents a possible pin on the knight on f3. White deals normally with this pin playing the pawn to h3, Bg5 and next Nd2-f1-g3. That takes time.

However to defend the pawn on e4 after 4. Be2 Nf6 will white have to play Nc3 or d3. In the normal Ruy Lopez can white counter the move Bc5 with c3 and d4. That is not possible after Be2 Nf6 and Nc3 or d3. Hence is that move Bc5 much stronger in this line of the Ruy Lopez then in the Italian game or after Ba4 or Bc6:.

The line after Be2 will give white not an advantage. Therefor has white imo two practical choices for a long term advantage: Ba4 or Bc6:.

The main tabitha?  I smell witchcraft.

after b .makes 2 move white cn respond by attak.w/na5 which creates issues like  bxp+,kxb,nxp+ ,etc..... not bad for white so-------bxn,pxb is the weakness maker.

See,things that people can learn !!

There is two moves after 3... a6

1: 4.Bxc6 dxc6 5. d4 exd4 6. Dxd4 Dxd4 7. Sxd4

2: 4.Ba4 Nf6 5. 0-0 Be7 6. Re1 etc.

The norwegian (I think) of the spanish. b5 is O.k.. Typically the intent of black is to trade his knight for whites awfully strong bishop. White advances not neccessarily weakens his queenside. He castles the other way.

In the spanish the white bishop is a crucial piece here black is going to exchange.