Develop quickly, knights before bishops; pay attention to the f7 and f2 squares; don't go chasing after a large material advantage but, destroying center pawns is ok. All of the classical aphorisims apply to the open games.
Swaping off every pawn that reaches the fourth rank is impossible and not all gambits have to be accepted. If you are not getting good positions that you like out of the opening, you should learn diffrent lines. There are a lot of them.
In response to the OP, there is no stereotypical strategy that can be applied to all open games. What you do against the Ruy Lopez is fine. 3...g6 is the Steinitz Variation, 3...Nge7 is the Cozio. 3...Nge7 should strictly be used as a surprise weapon against someone you play regularly and need something different than the Steinitz. 3...Nge7 does not equalize for Black.
If you are going to play the Steinitz Variation, also study the Three Knights Game (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Nc3 g6 4.d4 exd4 5.Nxd4 (or 5.Nd5) Bg7 6.Be3 Nf6 and White has a number of 7th move options.
Your line against the Scotch is no good. Quit 4...d6 immediately. Actually, if you play the Three Knights instead of the Four Knights (Steinitz played the Three Knights all the time) via 3...g6, then you also have your answer against the Scotch. 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 g6 5.Nc3 Bg7 and you have a direct transpostion, but don't try to do this against the Scotch Gambit. Better off playing the Two Knights.
Cheers. I don't really have a problem with the openings as I don't think they're a big deal for me anyway. The main goal for me is to aim for open positions but I'm not sure if this is possible when Black plays g6 in the opening or when Black can hold e5. This tends to lead to KID or Philidor positions where a lot of the time manoeuvres are more commmon than tactics.
For example in the Italian after 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Nf6 (instead of 4...Qe7 or 4...Bb6) 5.d4 Black usually captures on d4 and the game becomes open. However this sort of thing doesn't seem possible if Black isn't willing to swap pawns and accept gambits. This is why I'm not sure if plans where Black avoids capturing in the center really lead to "open" games.
In response to the OP, there is no stereotypical strategy that can be applied to all open games.
I really don't think you understand the above statement. You cannot always get an open or a closed position from the open game because your choices are limited by your opponent's moves. For example 1. e4 e5 2. d4 exd4 3. c3 is not going to lead to a closed position. Your options on move three are (a) 3...dxc3, (b) 3...d5, (c) 3...Qe7 and (d) 3...d3. None of them are going to undo the exchange.
I'm only concerned about positions in which White is trying to open the game like the Scotch or Italian gambit type stuff. I know open games aren't always possible. I'm having trouble deciding if I want to play 1...e5 since I only started using it to get more open games to practice with tactics. However this seems to come at the cost of requiring theory and I really try to avoid that sort of thing.
I was playing things like g6 sidelines to avoid theory but these choices seem to defeat the purpose of my choosing 1...e5 in the first place.
Uhm, you keep on preaching the problems with g6 lines - If you are specifically referring to the line I gave above in the Three Knights Game that can be played against a Four Knights attempt or the Scotch, keep in mind that with d4 by White and exd4 by Black, the position IS OPEN, especially the diagonal for the Bishop! So to compare to the KID is ludicrious
certain Gambits you should accept and others, you should seriously consider accepting with the plan of returning the material later (Halloween Gambit is one)
Uhm, you keep on preaching the problems with g6 lines - If you are specifically referring to the line I gave above in the Three Knights Game that can be played against a Four Knights attempt or the Scotch, keep in mind that with d4 by White and exd4 by Black, the position IS OPEN, especially the diagonal for the Bishop! So to compare to the KID is ludicrious
I never said anything about the three knights. I've never played it or g6 in the Scotch.
No one knows what you are talking about. You are wondering if you should swap off every pawn that reaches the fourth rank and accept all gambits, but this is not a very specific question.
1...e5 involves theory. Most of it does not involve memorize long unnatural lines, but it has accumulated a large body of theory. It also does not always lead to open games.
1...e5 does have a lot of playable options, if you don't like the positions you are getting you can try diffrent ones without learning an entirely new response to 1.e4.
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 d6?! is not very good.
I don't know if 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bc4 Bc5 4. c3 Qe7 is any better or worse then 4...Nf6. I never played that position with either color.
Maybe I should advise against accept the gambit: 1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Nd5.
Open games give you a lot of tactical opportunities so use tactics trainer
In some open games Black can adopt a strategy of holding the e5 point to avoid having to "surrender the center" but at the cost of development.
One example is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Qe7. Here Black tries to hold e5 until development is finished and only then look to play in the center. There isn't much to know to be able to play but White usually has the option of d5 or dxe5 leading to closed positions. After dxe5 the d-file opens but I don't think it's significant.
Another is 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 d6 w/ the idea of playing ...g6 and ...Qe7 to hold e5. I don't think there's much theory here and this can lead to the same positions in which White will usually play d5 or capture on e5.
The Hanham Philidor is similar since after 1.e4 d6 2.d4 Nf6 3.Nc3 e5 4.Nf3 Nf6 Black has the same idea of holding e5 and finishing development before playing in the center. And here too White tends to move the d-pawn sooner or later.
There is also a Pirc where Black plays d6 and c6 before playing e5.
I was experimenting with things like this because you don't really need to know much to get out of the opening. But playing this way seems to have the side effect of leading to games that aren't open in the literal sense. Black can capture on d4 in these situations but I think it's too dangerous with White having better development and more active pieces - especially if Black has played Qe7.
But since I wanted "open" games this was probably a bad strategy to try in the opening. So in positions in which White plays d4 I think Black simply has to swap and accept whatever gambits are offered to get an "open" game. But I'm just guessing as I really don't know how all this works. I don't know much theory as I usually played semi-open games to avoid these situations.
One point that comes out of this thread that has often occurred to me is that the "open games" (1. e4 e5) often aren't all that open in terms of pawn structure, especially in lines where white doesn't get in an early d4. People frequently told me to play open games to practice tactics, but more often than not whenever I have played open games they lead to slow strategic battles with lots of positional maneovering so I don't really get where the stereotype of open games comes from.
If you really want something open with lots of tactics play the Sicilian, even the Scandinavian might be worth consideration.
lol if all you get is slow positional manuevering than you obviously don't play The King's Gambit, or The Evan's Gambit, or maybe the Scotch you are probably playing the Ruy Lopez or something akin
True, but those are not the most popular or the strongest openings after 1. e4 e5. Generally I find the most common openings I come up against when I'm playing 1...e5 (I don't play 1. e4 as white too often) are indeed the Ruy and quite often the Giuoco Piano, both of which are quite slow, positional openings.
On the other hand if you play the Sicilian then the most popular and the strongest play will lead to extremely sharp and open positions.
I agree 100%. I think for those who really want to play open games as black against e4, d5 is the most accurate reply. There is no way for white to avoid an open game.
+1 to pfren gives white too much tempo and plenty of free development by chasing the queen
+1 to pfren gives white too much tempo and plenty of free development by chasing the queen
I'll alert Karpov and tell him to stop playing the thing.
One point that comes out of this thread that has often occurred to me is that the "open games" (1. e4 e5) often aren't all that open in terms of pawn structure, especially in lines where white doesn't get in an early d4. People frequently told me to play open games to practice tactics, but more often than not whenever I have played open games they lead to slow strategic battles with lots of positional maneovering so I don't really get where the stereotype of open games comes from.
If you really want something open with lots of tactics play the Sicilian, even the Scandinavian might be worth consideration.
Actually, it is fairly accurate when they say "The Open Games". If you look at any book in the last 15 years, like "Play the Open Games as Black" by Emms (2000), or "Beating the Open Games" by Marin, or "Starting Out: Open Games", or "The Open Games for Black" published a couple of years ago, take note of what those books cover!
They cover 1.e4 e5 EXCLUDING The Ruy Lopez. The Ruy Lopez is its own animal. There are tons of books on the Ruy alone.
So when you hear the general term "The Open Games", think "1.e4 e5 w/o the Ruy Lopez"
I like to play the open games with Black but a lot of the choices I make early in the opening are used to avoid theory. It seems that by playing this way although I don't need to memorise much the games tend to be closed rather than open.
For example in the Italian game I like to play 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.c3 Qe7. This protects e5 but usually White will either end up pushing to d5 or capturing on e5 leading to maneuvering games.
In the Ruy Lopez I play 3...g6 or 3...Nge7 which lead to about the same. I tried 3...f5 but most of the pieces were simply swapped off early in the opening leading to an endgame. 3...f5 4.Nc3 almost never occurs.
I decline just about all the gambits and meet the Vienna w/ Nf6 so I don't have to know that one.
The Scotch game/gambit I meet by taking on d4 and playing d6. This is passive but it's probably the closest thing to an open position I get out of the opening and it avoids all the theory involved with capturing pawns.
But now I'm wondering if the "proper" way to play the open games is to swap off every pawn that gets to the fourth rank and accept all the gambits. Because if White can't force Black to capture on d4 it seems like White has to play d5 and try to cramp the queenside and these aren't the types of positions I was aiming for when playing 1...e5.