Ruy Lopez is the best opening, change my mind

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DrCheckMateBoi

I started my chess journey in January, I spent weeks testing and analyzing the main openings for White and Black, after almost a year, I came to the conclusion that for White the Ruy Lopez is the best opening, the strongest, most versatile and dynamic, a powerful weapon that, if used according to theory with precision, is unbeatable.
Furthermore, for Black I believe that the Sicilian najdorf is the strongest defense, which if played correctly eliminates any advantage that White has. However, I don't have enough knowledge to use it, besides the fact that my opponents (1700 elo) always play anti-Sicilians or don't know the theory, playing random lines, so I prefer to use e5 against e4, because it's more fun and simple to play, my opponents like to play only the Italian or the Ruy exchange variation so I have good results.

Note1: I understand that there are several other good openings, but my point is that Spanish is slightly superior to them all.

note2: my main account is on lichess, on chess.com I don't use it, hence the low rating.

PromisingPawns

It's strong, but the scheilmann defence with f5 beats the hell out of me

BeatleFred

The Lopez is certainly a strong opening, after all, it was Fischer's main choice, but if I was playing black, instead of the usual 3..a6, I'd play the much more dynamic & interesting 3..f5!, the Schliemann.
Most top players nowadays seem to play it safe with 4.d3, otherwise 4.Nc3 invites wild lines after 4.. Nd4! (instead of the more common 4.. fxe). 
Whichever side you prefer, one thing is certain: its virtually impossible to play a dull/boring Schliemann. Just like the Vienna game/gambit, pushing the f pawns forward can intimidate an opponent if they are caught off guard.

BeatleFred

Here is a great example! 
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 f5 4.Nc3 Nd4 5.exf5 c6 6.Nxd4 exd4 7.Qh5+ Ke7 8.O-O dxc3 9.dxc3 Nf6 10.Re1+ Kd6 11.Bf4+ Kc5 12.Be3+ Kd6 13.Bf4+ ½-½

Ethan_Brollier
DrCheckMateBoi wrote:

I started my chess journey in January, I spent weeks testing and analyzing the main openings for White and Black, after almost a year, I came to the conclusion that for White the Ruy Lopez is the best opening, the strongest, most versatile and dynamic, a powerful weapon that, if used according to theory with precision, is unbeatable.
Furthermore, for Black I believe that the Sicilian najdorf is the strongest defense, which if played correctly eliminates any advantage that White has. However, I don't have enough knowledge to use it, besides the fact that my opponents (1700 elo) always play anti-Sicilians or don't know the theory, playing random lines, so I prefer to use e5 against e4, because it's more fun and simple to play, my opponents like to play only the Italian or the Ruy exchange variation so I have good results.

Note1: I understand that there are several other good openings, but my point is that Spanish is slightly superior to them all.

note2: my main account is on lichess, on chess.com I don't use it, hence the low rating.

You’re a U1700 e4 blitz main who began playing Lichess in January correct? 
Okay, so if I’m right, then I’m really sorry to burst your bubble, but… the Ruy Lopez is not White’s best opening. In fact, it may not even be White’s best Open Game. In recent decades, the Closed Morphy has been almost completely overtaken at the top level by the Marshall Attack and the Berlin Defense, both of which give Black very very strong drawish chances, with the former retaining strong winning chances as well. The Italian has seen a huge surge in popularity, as well as the Anti-Marshall and Slow Ruy Lopez. Unfortunately, none of these give White the same success as the Closed Morphy did, and so e4 is now widely considered to be the 4th or 5th best opening move, rather than the best.

The same force that pushed the Ruy Lopez (and by extension, e4 as a whole) out of prominence also toppled Najdorf’s uncontested throne as well. The Marshall Attack is now at the very least a strong challenger for the title of best defense against e4, if not the best outright.

I’d highly recommend looking into the English Opening, considering you like the Najdorf so much but are forced to play Anti-Sicilians all the time, I think the English would suit you perfectly, as White can transpose to other White openings (usually d4 c4 openings or KIA-style openings) against Black’s various options. Definitely continue playing e5 against e4 though.

Ethan_Brollier
BeatleFred wrote:

The Lopez is certainly a strong opening, after all, it was Fischer's main choice, but if I was playing black, instead of the usual 3..a6, I'd play the much more dynamic & interesting 3..f5!, the Schliemann.
Most top players nowadays seem to play it safe with 4.d3, otherwise 4.Nc3 invites wild lines after 4.. Nd4! (instead of the more common 4.. fxe). 
Whichever side you prefer, one thing is certain: it’s virtually impossible to play a dull/boring Schliemann. Just like the Vienna game/gambit, pushing the f pawns forward can intimidate an opponent if they are caught off guard.

Hey! A fellow Jaenisch player!

I much prefer the Tartakower Variation against the Dyckhoff when I play the Schliemann, but 4… Nd4 is certainly interesting. I just don’t like the 5. Bc4 line where all of White’s pieces look perfect while all of Black’s look completely misplaced.

As White, I switched to d4, so I don’t play the Jaenisch except on the rare occasion where I bring back e4 for a few games and the stars align, and when they do, I play the Exchange Variation since I sincerely doubt I remember any of my Dyckhoff prep and it isn’t common enough to be worth maintaining in my eyes.

BeatleFred

Actually, my impressions of the Schliemann were formed not by playing it as black, but rather, playing Against it as white- this was back in the late 80's- a good friend of mine used to play it all the time whenever I played the Lopez. This was before computers and databases, etc, so my only reference was the book by Shamkovich & Schiller, to study the lines.
I though the same thing with Bc4 and so forth, that white's position seemed to look good with lots of attacking chances, especially by preventing black from castling- but lo & behold... I would then discover black would have ways to counterattack... Look over that game I posted- black's king moves out to the queenside, yet it ends in a draw!
This is a good example of what I mean about wild positions, and why I dont see top players choosing 4. Nc3. They go with the more passive looking 4. d3. I wish more opponents played the Schliemann vs Fischer back in the day, I would be so interested to see how Bobby would have handled it, but almost everyone played 3.. a6 instead (yawn, zzzz...) 
Thus, as I described earlier- I came to appreciate the Schliemann by the games played with my friend, and seeing how he escaped so many mating threats I thought I had as white.
I also commend him for choosing 4.. Nd4! rather than fxe, I find the knight move to make things much more complex, but as I said too- very exciting and wild, not dull/boring.

GYG

I quit the Schliemann because of 4.Nc3. Everyone at my level knew a million moves of theory and I couldn't be bothered competing with them.

So I switched to the Delayed Schliemann/Jaenisch with 3...a6 4.Ba4 f5!?, which almost nobody knows, and I started scoring alot better.

tygxc

Yes, Ruy Lopez is the best opening. AlphaZero concurs.
No, the Schliemann 3...f5, or the delayed Schliemann 3...a6 4 Ba4 f5 are not critical.
Critical are 3...Nf6, 3...a6 and to a lesser extent 3...Bc5.

DrCheckMateBoi

I understand that at my level the choice of opening doesn't matter much, but Ruy Lopez is the opening that I have the most knowledge of, it's the one that I perform best and the one that I like to play the most, Scotch I find boring, and I don't see the point in using Italian if there is Ruy Lopez, even the variation with c3 d3

Furthermore, in Ruy Lopez, 3. f5 is not critical, no one has ever played this defense against me at my level and I don't see any GM using it either, with me they always use 3.d6 or Bc5 or Nf6

Crispysrisp
rupam44 написал:

It's strong, but the scheilmann defence with f5 beats the hell out of me

Crush it.

CaroKannEnjoyer02

Personally, I think there isn't a such thing called a "Best opening." Every opening has it pros and cons. The ruy lopez is likely one of the most versatile openings out there, but in order to use it, you must know a HEAVY amount of theory. However, it is completely reasonable to say the ruy lopez is the best opening based on what masters and computers play.

GMegasDoux

When tablebase completes its work for standard chess starting point we will know if any of the opening moves for white results in a forced win, or if chess is a draw. Until then you can not prove Ruy Lopez is definatively the best opening, only that it is solid.

Crispysrisp
CaroKannEnjoyer02 написал:

Personally, I think there isn't a such thing called a "Best opening." Every opening has it pros and cons. The ruy lopez is likely one of the most versatile openings out there, but in order to use it, you must know a HEAVY amount of theory. However, it is completely reasonable to say the ruy lopez is the best opening based on what masters and computers play.

Your point of view is completely unreasonable. 200 variations is too much? Hold my beer.

maafernan

Hi!

I think it is a great opening that leads to strategically complex positions. It was said before that if you play well both sides of this opening, then you can be considered an expert player.

As white I like the main lines. As black I either go with 3...a6 /Chigorin variation or with 3...Nf6 and 4...Bc5.

Good luck!

PromisingPawns

@Crispysrisp i hope it works and thank you....i have a terrible winning rate against this line....i don't think I ever won a single game against this line.

Crispysrisp
rupam44 написал:

@Crispysrisp i hope it works and thank you....i have a terrible winning rate against this line....i don't think I ever won a single game against this line.

Btw, @Badchesserrr4486999 had a blog called "Rip their souls: Crush the schliemann!" Or something. https://www.chess.com/blog/Badchesserrr4486999/rip-their-souls-crush-the-schliemann I think his blog is really usefull.