Ruy Lopez Norwegian

I was wondering about an unusual variation in the Ruy Lopez as Black, the Norwegian Variation.  I understand that at first glance, it looks as if Black is completely ignoring the center, but Black is pretty much guarenteed the option of exchanging off the Lopez Bishop.

I very much like the look of this rare variation and am wondering if it is even considered a good option as Black.  All of those that play this, or play against it, your opinions will be greatly appreciated.

Does anyone know anything?

As far as i know this is positionaly suspect. It is certainly an aggressive but time-consuming alternative for Black. 

Black loses some time, you should probably continue with normal development, 6.0-0, etc...

Good for bullet in my opinion.

I think there's interesting variation with 6.Bxf7, but I can't remember the line now.

http://www.chess.com/article/view/ruy-lopez-norwegian-defense

Bxf7+ Ke7 and Black has a offside Knight and White saves the Bishop. Even if Black wants to harrass the Bishop, you get to g2 by playing g3 after Bh5. And if Black takes, Ne5+ and 0-0 to follow and though the Lopez Bishop is gone, so is Black' ability to castle and you can own the e and/or f files in the middle and endgame and give him a weak Knight to play with.

I am afraid I don't quite understand.  Could you show a diagram displaying what you are talking about?

Bxf7+ surely not enough not compensation, best for blitz. 0-0 surely a better continuation.

Do you know about the early 6. ... Bb7 lines?

I know nothing about this opening  but 6...Bb7 I would probably meet with the simple Re1 and play would probably be similar-ish. Actually it might even be bad because of:

Although I wouldn't be sure of that - I had a quick look in a database and no strong players have played 6...Bb7 though, leading me to think it might be bad.

I believe the point of the early 6. ... Bb7 actually is sacrificing the e5 pawn, but I'm unfamiliar with how Black gets his compensation.

Will post one tomorrow. have to make lunch and play with the kids now.

In that case - yeah, neither do I, it just looks bad. Like I said, no strong players have played it. Maybe a try would be 8...Bd6 but it looks unnatural. Any pawn move on the 8th to evict the knight from the centre blocks another of Black's pieces, 8...Qe7 and the king-queen line up looks dodgy, but if you don't evict the knight then it just dominates. So I don't see a way for Black to coordinate in a fashion which provides sufficient compensation.

Here is a line that can capitalize on the weakness of the Na5 move to the Norwegian. True it is probably good only in Blitz or coffeehouse games but if your play is in the 1400-1599 ratings group, it might be a good surprise reply.

Always remember, if your opponent plays a move that violates opening principles and leaves weaknesses on the board, capitalize as soon as possible. Nearly every move in all the lines and variations win material, exchanges or tempo for white and do not weaken him at all. It might be a way for you to get some quick wins as well if Black plays unsoundly in his replies.

1.e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 Nf6 5.O-O b5 6.Bb3 is called the Arkhangelsk Variation.  White has an edge if he has memorized a lot of variations but it is another example of why non-masters shouldn't play the Ruy Lopez.  A master can accept the pawn sacrifice and walk a tightrope for an edge.   At the sub-master level it is easier to play as Black.

That is true yet in this line Black opted for the Na5 move which can still reach the line you reference later if White does not play the line shown above.

IMHO, playing the Ruy Lopez at any level is a challenge and yet if non-masters do not attempt to play it, then they can assuredly be crushed in it if someone else plays it against them as they will be lost by the 5th or 6th moves. This is the only way to get better at lines is to study and expect to lose early on while they come to understand the concepts behind it.

Not sure what Futbol would do if say on move 3 White takes the Knight then after 3. ... dxc6 4. 0-0 f5 but as White, you have to watch for all sorts of lines after the exchange like  Nf6,  Be6, Bf5, Be7, Bc5 etc. And those are just the legitimate lines. What would you do if Black played 5. ... f6?!

Bottom line the Lopez has a lot of theory to cover and you are right Blake, it is a lot of ground to memorize as some lines have been analyzed to move 30 and beyond.

@futbol: if you are serious about playing the Ruy Lopez, I would suggest reading some books and playing one or two lines that are easy to understand. A good start might be "Starting Out: Ruy Lopez" as it covers the basics of most of the lines at a level that is easy to understand for beginners and find a good openings database like Chessbase. Also, Nick Defirmian has a Modern Chess Openings that is simplified from the bigger volume he publishes all the time you might make use of. You can search Amazon.com to find out price and availability.

Good luck in your play.

I believe the Bxf7 lines aren't sound.

I recommend that non-masters play the Black side of the Ruy Lopez.  They only have to know one variation, a fraction of what White need to know. There are a lot of variations for Black to chose from that are much easier to play from the Black side because of his active piece play vs. White's slight positional edge.  Accuracy isn't as important for the active side.  I would recommend the Dilworth Variation a sub-variation of the Open.  Sure a master could beat you positionally but you will have lots of fun beating up non-masters.

I just realized OP was talking about playing the Black side.  Yes, go ahead and play the Arkhangels after you study it.  You will have fun.