"Theoricallyly, Nc3 is better than d3"
Thats wrong and this assesment is based on old theory.
Nowadays, almost nobody at top level plays Nc3 because of the line 3.Nc3 fxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 which leads to drawish positions, although white is pawn up.
This is discussed by Silman here :
http://www.chess.com/article/view/the-jaenischschliemann-gambit
I disagree.
Drawish positions?
Those are the lines I aim for!
"Theoricallyly, Nc3 is better than d3"
Thats wrong and this assesment is based on old theory.
Nowadays, almost nobody at top level plays Nc3 because of the line 3.Nc3 fxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 which leads to drawish positions, although white is pawn up.
This is discussed by Silman here :
http://www.chess.com/article/view/the-jaenischschliemann-gambit
White is a pawn up? Which lines are you refering to?
From my experience, when white gets a pawn up black gets clear compensation
Oh, I wondered if it was different.
Well for me, some lines are drawish, but as black I don't mind this, and most are exciting and fun
Have you ever played it?
"Theoricallyly, Nc3 is better than d3"
Thats wrong and this assesment is based on old theory.
Nowadays, almost nobody at top level plays Nc3 because of the line 3.Nc3 fxe4 4.Nxe4 Nf6 which leads to drawish positions, although white is pawn up.
Not according to my database.
Even opening explorer thinks Nc3 is better, though I disagree with the percentages. Black is worse if he is not accurate, but if you know what you are doing it is not hard to be accurate! Also in Nc3 more than 1/3 of the games continued 4... fxe4 5. Nxe4 d5?! Which is currently far superior to white. That was played mostly in the romantic era of chess, which skews the statistics.
What do you have on this line?
The whole thing looks like two result chess; either White wins or it's a draw.
It's not so simple. In 9...Ba6 10.Nd3 black can play Bb6 and keep his bishop pair and I don't see how can White play for a clear advantage with out risk something after that.
In 9...d6 10. Nd3 Bd4 the position is already equal , black can claim a draw anytime with out sweat at all and occasionally win if White become optimistic.
I wondered if anyone read the article i mentionned, talking about all u wrote with more details and (sorry) much more trustworthy...
@ logozar : statistics is helpless, dont prove anything, or u have to watch lets say +2500 rated players, and also lets say the 10 last years.
And if u read Silman's article, well, i will have nothing to add because he is rather convincing...
4.d3 is supposed to be better because 4.Nc3 leads to forced lines where black found way to equalize "easily", not the case with 4.d3.
Thats a bit the same difference between Giuoco Piano with c3 and d4, where black can equalize easily, and with Giuoco Piano with c3 and d3, where it may be equal, but path to achieve equality is more difficult, lines being less forced so no final verdict can be done.
EDIT the first sentence of this post was directed at BG5, not IM poucin.
I don't know about that; the computer seems keen on 9...Ba6 10. Nd3 Bd6 11. Bg5 Qe8 12. Re1 Rb8 13. Na4 and this game does not inspire confidence.
Your assessment of a draw at will in the mainline is overly optimistic. Black will regain his pawn, but is left with the worse pawn structure, a slight development deficiency and potential tactical problems on the a2-g8 diagonal. I have every reason to consider the line a low-risk winning attempt.
The reason I like this opening with d3 is because black has a clear plan without many sidelines for white.
Black has an easy plan. Bc5, if white does not take d6, 0-0, Qe8, Qh5, f file pressure, Ne7 Ng6 and in some cases rook sac on f3.
I have never had trouble playing, and find it to be hard for white to play for an advantage
This is funny. The game you posted doesn't prove that white plays for an initiative in this line, instead after move 35 black is better. If you think that after 9...d6 10.Nd3 Bd4 white has practical chances to play for a win, good luck! you will need it! If black has tactical problems on a2-g8 diagonal, thank God white traded his light sq bishop.Lol
Ok. Have fun defending your slightly worse endgames. Meanwhile, I will wonder why any amateur plays this as an opening strategy.
Ok. Have fun defending your slightly worse endgames. Meanwhile, I will wonder why any amateur plays this as an opening strategy.
Amateur? I have played several times against similer rated people, won every time. It becomes drawish at master level
Are you calling Magnus carlson an amateur? He has played it
So has:
Siegbert Tarrasch
frank marshall
Teimour Radjabov
and more. Many GMs have played it with sucsess. (and lower level players, and some Super GMs)
As for the slightly worse endgames, that happens to black with perfect play in any opening, and I happen to like blacks easy and fun play here
My list of people that I will never ever bother to talk to increases. You logozar are an amateur, I am an amateur, Bishop to g5 is an amateur. I see no reason why any of us should habitually defend worse endgames as an opening strategy. You are also rude and kind of stupid.
Aggressive psychopath @
Have you ever cross from your mind that besides an amateur, you are so clueless about chess to make conclusions for openings and endings? I am 100% convist that you don't even know how to force a Schliemann game with white pieces to an ending. You just come down here to type your bullshit...
Aggressive psychopath @
Have you ever cross from your mind that besides an amateur, you are so clueless about chess to make conclusions for openings and endings? I am 100% convist that you don't even know how to force a Schliemann game with white pieces to an ending. You just come down here to type your bullshit...
Dear me if you are going to insult me could you please do so in a semi-literate manner? How do I cross from my mind? Do you mean "has it ever crossed my mind"? Your "convistion" is rather illogical since we are starting from a rather late middlegame position. Also an ellipsis is not a form of terminal punctuation; its use seems to indicate that you lost your train of thought.
What bullshit are you talking about? An assessment that White is better, and that the game will in all likelihood end in either a White win or a draw? That you are an amateur?
Here we will discuss what happens if white plays one of the mainlines, 4. d3 in responce to the Schliemann, and how to deal with it.
Theoreticly, Nc3 is better than d3 but both are the main lines. I will cover Nc3 in another forum.