Ruy Lopez vs Italian

I was hoping to begin playing the Italian (Giuoco Piano) opening in a tourney but so far only 2 out of 6 have signed up. That way I could have experienced it for myself.

So since that has not come about (so far), now I will ask you. What are the pros and cons of the Ruy? the Italian?

I would appreciate any ideas.

stwils

The Ruy Lopez has the strongest center out of all the 1.e4 e5 openings while the Italian has the strongest pieces out of all the 1.e4 e5 openings.

How do you mean the "strongest pieces?"  You mean by position? Please say a little more.

stwils

Hmm...

I tried playing the Ruy, but the devastatingly large sea of theory was too much for me to handle. The Italian game is what I like to play, because all I need to know is the two knights defense and the guioco piano. There's lots of room for variation in those lines, but generally you just have to pick one as white.

What I mean is that in the Italian, the pieces are generally placed on their strongest squares.  The king's knight is strongest on f3, the King's bishop is strongest on the c4 diagonal, and eventually d4 in some variations. 

In the Ruy the King's bishop goes to b5, and has to back pedal if black plays a6. Always annoys me! But then I am told it keeps retreating and ends up on a good square. But it takes a lot of time for that to happen, don't you think?

stwils

i prefer the italian to the ruy. italian game has some great lines in it which are very opening and attacking. here's a good link to a nice breakdown of the italian game. my favorite italian game line has to be the evan's gambit of course.

some pros for the italian game:

• places your king bishop on it's strongest diagonal (which threatens black's weak f7 pawn)
• it can create a strong center (with c and d pawn pushes to come - also these center pawns can work wonders when pushed even further to force black to retreat his/her pieces; this is an important aspect of some lines in the italian game)
• it rapidly develops pieces which forces black to try and keep up (see previous point as well for tempo and development)
• it places your rook(s) on e1 and/or d1 which can break through the center - or at least gives you the opportunity to do this fairly quickly (and threaten black's king if uncastled)

it's all about quick development and taking control of the center, and it also leads to a lot of attacking potential. it's a great opening imho.

maybe you should try the exchange variation then.

I have been tempted to try the exchange, but I hate losing my bishop so early in the game. But then again, that is an option.

stwils

here's a recent live game that i played on chess.com - it features the italian game: evan's gambit. just thought i'd put it out there so you can get a better idea of the opening. look for all the attacking possibilities and open lines it creates (and yes i know there are mistakes on both sides in this game, but it still serves my purpose here).

yes but its not like they counter it with pieces, they push it with pawns that become loose. either way I like the Italian as well

trigs, thanks so much for including your game featuring the Italian opening. I have played through it, and I'm going to play through it several more times until I get a feel for it.

And thanks to the rest of you for your helpful comments.

Now if only 4 more people join that little Giuoco Piano tourney, I'll  be ready to try my hand at it.

stwils

i prefer the italian game just because there isnt at much theory, its easier to play yet still gives lots of attacking chances...nice classical play

the bishop being chased around by a6 and b5, like jarkov said loosens or weakens the queenside which is why most people will play a4 as white to exploit those weaknesses and exchange the A pawn for play down the a file, study bobby fischers games

The Ruy is considered more aggressive, if you like to attack - play the Spanish. I like the Ruy. I know plenty of agressive players who like the Italian as well especially Evans Gambit.

I don't quite understand about playing a4 and "exchanging it for play down the a file." Is there an example of a game I could see? Or am I asking too much.

Anyway, thank you.

stwils

I like the Ruy Lopez, though I unswervingly play the Exchange Variation to 3...a6. I especially like it to make somebody else have to come out of their shell, or be saddled with permanent weaknesses for no compensation.

That usually does shock a lot of opponents who think you will retreat your bishop. However, I do hate losing my bishop so early in the game.

stwils

i depends what you mean with taking alot of time. what is black doing in that time? he is not developing a single piece and making useless queensidemoves that weakens queenside. the result of this was your bishop ends at a good square. it aims at f7 or have to move to c2 and aims at h7.  the bishop ends at the same squares in the ruy lopez as in the italian so that shouldnt be a factor when deciding:)

you seem to be worried about the bishop not beeing good enough? well in the lopez check the horrible knight black has at a5 after forcing your bishop to c2 which is a good square.

but on our level its very simple. take the one that is most fun for you:)

I love the exchange variation in the Ruy. Of course, I may be a bit biased as I prefer knight play and love endgames. As the exchange gives an early endgame most of the time.