Sicilian Defence: McDonnell Attack

Isn't this also known as the Grand Prix, or is there a difference between the two openings?

I think the Grand Prix entails 2.Nc3 first and then 3.f4.  The issue with 2.f4 is supposed to be that it allows 2...d5 -- 2.Nc3 precludes that.

Thank you. Indeed, I forgot that 2. Nc3 precedes the f4 push in the Grand Prix.

Yep. 2.f4 allows black an immediate and equalizing d5 push.

Warbringer33 wrote:

shkrelis_bane wrote:

I think the Grand Prix entails 2.Nc3 first and then 3.f4.  The issue with 2.f4 is supposed to be that it allows 2...d5 -- 2.Nc3 precludes that.

Thank you. Indeed, I forgot that 2. Nc3 precedes the f4 push in the Grand Prix.

So what the hell is the point of the McDonnell then? Pretty much seems gimped in a similar way that the KGA is. It just loses by force.

Well famed opening thoretician Sveshnikov has written an entire book about meeting the Sicilian with 2.f4: http://www.amazon.com/Grand-Prix-Attack-Fighting-Sicilian/dp/9056914170/ so I doubt it "loses by force".  Confusingly though he names it the Grand Prix although White does not interpolate 2.Nc3 in the lines he explores -- this may have been a marketing ploy, because 2.f4 doesn't have such an easily recognizable name.

@ warbringer33, I really don't know the ideas behind the McDonnell. However, it seems popular in blitz both here and lichchess and after conferring with stockfish the best move is 2.d5. Whites best move is exd but engine already gives black equality after Nf6 Nc3 Nxd5. white could try to hold the pawn with 3.c4 but after e6 dxe Bxe6 black is already ahead in development and should have an easy game. I haven't tested this yet but I could easily see white trying the greedy 3.c4 in blitz and think this could a nice little gambit for black.

Let Wikipedia help you:

"2.f4 is the Grand Prix Attack or McDonnell Attack: the latter name stems from the 14th match game played in London in 1834 between Alexander McDonnell and Charles Louis Mahé de La Bourdonnais, won by Black. According to Jeremy Silman and others, Black's best reply is 2...d5 3.exd5 Nf6!, the Tal Gambit, which has caused the immediate 2.f4 to decline in popularity. White may decline the gambit with 3.Nc3, called the "Toilet Variation", so named after its reputed place of invention. A less common option is 2...e6, as La Bourdonnais played against McDonnell. Players usually enter the Grand Prix Attack nowadays by playing 2.Nc3 first before continuing 3.f4. The modern main line runs 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.f4 g6 4.Nf3 Bg7. Here White can play the positional 5.Bb5, threatening to double Black's pawns with Bxc6, or the more aggressive 5.Bc4, aiming for a kingside attack."

Reference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilian_Defence#Grand_Prix_Attack

As you can see both names are correct.

Well, I can certainly see why 2.Nc3 was implemented.