Stop playing the London

You're getting destroyed. Stop playing it unless you play it the correct way.

I

@medelpad

Black equalises immediately with an early c5. Black has to know 1-2 lines at most, and he is even better at our levels.

Playing any opening "the right way" is important to making it work. If people play openings and mess them up and lose, changing openings won't be the solution to winning more. Learning the opening better is the solution.

@1

"Stop playing it unless you play it the correct way." ++ That applies to any opening.

The problem with the London System for players below master level isn't just about playing it right. There is a bigger problem. It stunts chess growth.

Playing, say, 1.d4 and 2.c4 or 1.e4 leads to a diverse array of pawn structures. Take 1.d4/2.c4. You can get a blocked position from the Kings Indian, face an IQP in the Tarrasch Defense, get a symmetrical position with an open file in the Exchange slav, a mobile pawn center in an exchange grunfeld, or a static position in the Exchange QGD.

With the London, it is pretty much the same pawn structure over and over and over and over again, and will stunt your chess growth.

This is in addition to the fact that many play the London in a lazy manner, figuring it doesn't matter what Black plays. Other than 1...e5, he figures he will close his eyes, play 2.Bf4, 3.e3, 4.Nf3, 5.h3, and only then look at what Black has done, not realizing that the London is actually dubious at best against the Modern and against the Dutch.

Another lazy man's opening that many amateurs play wrong is the English Opening. Played properly, it is a powerful weapon. I beat a 2262 on Tuesday with it, which I posted in the Game Showcase section Thursday.

But then you get those that close their eye, and play 1.c4, 2.g3, 3.Bg2, and 4.Nc3 (something Kosten suggested in the 90s) and only then play chess. That is bad. For example, White gets nothing after 1.c4 e5 2.g3 Nc6 3.Bg2?! f5 4.Nc3 Nf6! Instead, White should play 3.Nc3 in response to 2...Nc6 and if 3...f5, then 4.Nf3! Nf6 5.d4! e4 and now 6.Nh4! With a Bishop on g2, this can easily get the Knight trapped. But by leaving g2 open, if Black ever plays ...g5, then Ng2 and h4, trying to entice ...gxh4 or ...g4, giving the Knight a beautiful outpost on f4.

In fact, that game posted Thursday, played Tuesday, was that line in a different move order. 1.c4 e5 2.Nc3 Nc6 3.Nf3 f5 4.g3 Nf6 5.d4 e4 6.Nh4 and 1-0 (60).

So the problem with the London is not just that amateurs play it improperly, but also that they play it on autopilot, even when bad, and lack diverse pawn structures, stunting their chess growth.

@7

"With the London, it is pretty much the same pawn structure over and over and over and over again, and will stunt your chess growth."
++ It is the same pawn structure, but that helps chess growth in that it gives a deeper understanding. It is better to play one structure that you begin to understand, than to play a dozen structures of which you understand none. Even professional players play the same structure e.g. Ruy Lopez over and over and thus accumulate experience and understanding.

No, the Ruy Lopez does not always lead to the same structure.

The Berlin leads to doubled pawns for Black (a7-b7-c7-c6)

The Closed Ruy can lead to blocked positions after an eventual d5 by White or more open positions with cxd4 or exd4 by Black.

The Open Ruy sees her a different pawn structure.

So yes, there are single openings with different pawn structures. The London is not one of them.

Another prime example of one opening with multiple pawn structures is the French.

The Winawer and Advance lead to the blocked center.

The Exchange and Tarrasch with 4...exd5 leads to an open game

The Rubinstein and Tarrasch with 4...Qxd5 leads to a different structure.

The Classical with 4.Bg5 Be7 leads to yet another structure.

The London, it is almost always a2-b2-c3-d4-e3-f2-g2-h3, each and every time!

Stop playing it unless you play it the correct way.

I am aware that playing the london and blundering my queen right after is bad opening, thank you.

@9

"The London, it is almost always a2-b2-c3-d4-e3-f2-g2-h3, each and every time"
++ OK, but that is an advantage and not a disadvantage for progress. You can accumulate experience and get into the finesses of how to play that structure: when to do what and why. How to maneuvre? What to trade and what not? It is a rich opening, played at top grandmaster level.

What i was trying to say is that most people don't play it in a challenging way. For example many time when black hasnt played c5 and put their bishop on d6 white can really use a bishop trade on f4 as this controls even more e5. Sliding the bishop back tog3 hoping for an open h file isn't really useful unless your opponent helps you. Also yeah playing the same moves over and over mindlessly without grapping the advantage is another problem. And lastly as i said above, d5,Nf6,c5,Nc6,Qb6 is a standard solution against the london. And white gets nothing 99% of the times

I agree that people, especially at lower rating spam the london in shorter time controls, cause it is fast moves without really thinking, but you can get them out of their rhytm by playing dutch, or the benoni which is very rare at lower ratings, also since it has been spammed so much a lot of people really have learned to play properly against london, so can still get a nice game going, same goes for the italian, you go for giucco game and it is always quite challenging albeit even at low ratings people know the italian quite deep in

I maintain that the London is perfectly fine to play - as long as it's not the only white opening you play.

Yes, if you play only the London and nothing else as White, you'll limit your exposure to other pawn structures, which (I agree) can stunt your growth as a player. It's important to be exposed to different kinds of structures, so you can learn how to handle different types of middlegames.

But I also believe that the London structure itself (and the types of middlegames it can produce) is also valuable to learn and be exposed to, as well.

So it, too, should be played now and then, along with all the others ...

If anyone can destroy chess, it's this opening

I rarely use it because I'm still a beginner

So, let's try to play the London "the right way".

Nah, not a very good way. This position has been exhaustively analysed, and leads to total equality, IF both sides play 15 more book moves each. Likely not everybody's cup of tea.

Since Liem Le Quang brought back the unassuming 3.c3 move order 3 years ago, it has become very popular at top level, especially at short time controls. The main idea is of course, making ...c5 less desirable for Black. One shouldn't expect any sort of theoretical advantage for white, but the resulting positions leave plenty of room for creativity. WC Ding Liren used it at a crucial tiebreak game, and even managed to get a large advantage at some point.

Perhaps you haven't met many Stonewall players yet.

Especially the "I'll play the Stonewall setup with both colors for every single game!" ones ...

Of course, if you don't want the London System played against you, you can play 1. ..e6 in response to 1. d4 (rather than 1. ..Nf6), and if white still continues with 2. Bf4 (half the time they'll respond with 2. e4 and then 2. ..d5 puts you in the French Defense) answer with 2. ..b6 and white will have to suffer on the light squares for the rest of the game. There's a viable anti-system for everything. Not enough to ask others to stop, much better to force them to understand that chess is a 2-player game, and their opponent is not obliged to enable any given setup.

Same thing with the Stonewall, if white wants to make a ton of holes on the light squares (or black on the dark squares), holding the d-pawn back until the right moment, combined with a queenside fianchetto, will prove very painful to them.