FizzyBand, I understand that it takes a lot of position play, but if I don’t have the positional play, but the only way to improve that is to play positional games.
The Catalan: renewed discussion
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CubeLogic wrote:
FizzyBand, I understand that it takes a lot of position play, but if I don’t have the positional play, but the only way to improve that is to play positional games.
If you want to improve your positional chess, study games of positional top players.
IMHO: 1.Play casual games with the Catalan. 2.If you enjoyed the positions you got from this opening, if you were able to build a plan etc... Just play it!
If you didn't know what to do, even knowing the key ideas of the opening, then you should maybe search for something else.
CubeLogic wrote:
FizzyBand, I understand that it takes a lot of position play, but if I don’t have the positional play, but the only way to improve that is to play positional games.
Yes, it is a good idea to learn by playing positional games, but the Catalan is on a different level. I would recommend playing 1.d4, with Queen’s Gambits as well as other simpler positional games.
I honestly don't think it's that difficult for anyone to play the white side of the Catalan, from the black side it's much more complicated to play. I think it's important to not play it in blitz tho. There's two ways I'd recommend to strategically play the opening. If black takes the c4 pawn pin the f6 knight with the bishop and take the knight whenever you feel its correct, then establish an e4 d4 pawn centre. Then try to establish the your knights on outposts in the centre, there's likely to be a weak square somewhere on blacks side of the board. In this variation I usually gambit the c4 pawn entirely in favour of quick knight development and if my opponent lets me take the c4 pawn with a knight then bonus. When you get better at chess then maybe start playing the queen c2 lines capturing the pawn on c4 with the queen. And number two, when your opponent doesn't take the c4 pawn, try to prepare and push e4 as quickly as possible.
FGMkyrollous wrote:
I have been on a quest to find the best opening for me as white....I went through several chess websites for suitable recommendations and I was about to pick one when I stumbled into the "openings" section in the "learning" category on chess.com....I went through every opening listed and viewed the pros and cons of each...until I found.....
THE CATALAN.......
I was Impressed......really impressed......I learned about it (and still am) on YouTube....I was happy with it as the best opening for me...if not at all...it just had everything I needed to focus on....it's also one of the rarest openings to be played in my level...which almost guarantees a powerful advantage.....
Not long afterwards...I searched for sample opinions about it on Google....there was the surprise.....
In a chess.com forum topic from 2017...someone asked if it was good for him to play the Catalan (he was about 1600 in rating then), although he asked an IM the same question previously...that IM said that this opening was too complex for him....he said that only experts of 2300+ should play it.....some comments said it was fine...some said it was foolish to ask non experts as he already had an answer from an expert......they say that it's only stupid to ignore an expert's answer (which makes a lot of sense)
This is were I began to think....is he (the IM) right?
My father always told me before : "if you want to improve quickly at something, train with the experts IN THE WAY OF EXPERTS, not with and like those who are as good as you..."
This advice's application in this position....if I understand clearly....that if the GMs play special openings in special ways....I should try and do the same....that is the best way to get better....
And what is this special opening? The Catalan, or so the IM said...
So, what do you think?...would working on the catalan help me, or hinder me?...
There are a couple things to note.
First, at your level, spending too much time working on openings will slow down your progress. Tactics and endgames will get you much farther right now than studying opening ideas.
Second, if you want to play the Catalan, study the games of Ding Liren. If you enjoy studying those games, play the opening. If you do not, the Catalan is not for you.
Third, the Catalan is not a system, and there are ways for Black to avoid it. This means you will need something to pair it with eventually. I say eventually because right now the opening is not going to matter much.
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#28
I see...I thank everyone for their contribution......
Alright....working on the Catalan shall be postponed........
Yes I also thank everyone.
Hmm. Thank y’all for the info I will not be learning the Catalan. Which is disappointing cuz I was just about to start studying it. Looks fun to play. But if it’s as complex as you say I should stick to things more simple. However...I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone that says I shouldn’t learn opening theory at this point in my “chess career”. I’ve been playing for years. I’ve done many many many hours of tactical training. I’m still only 1500 daily/rapid. 1100 blitz. Recently started studying theory couple months ago. I’d still be 1300 if it wasn’t for the London/French/kings gambit. Not only did studying these openings give me good attacking ideas, but also better knowledge of defending against them. Simply understanding the main ideas behind each of the main openings...this is crucial to becoming a better player. So yeah...I don’t buy the whole “your not good enough to study openings”. I wish I hadn’t waited so long to start.
jtmccann15 wrote:
Hmm. Thank y’all for the info I will not be learning the Catalan. Which is disappointing cuz I was just about to start studying it. Looks fun to play. But if it’s as complex as you say I should stick to things more simple. However...I wholeheartedly disagree with anyone that says I shouldn’t learn opening theory at this point in my “chess career”. I’ve been playing for years. I’ve done many many many hours of tactical training. I’m still only 1500 daily/rapid. 1100 blitz. Recently started studying theory couple months ago. I’d still be 1300 if it wasn’t for the London/French/kings gambit. Not only did studying these openings give me good attacking ideas, but also better knowledge of defending against them. Simply understanding the main ideas behind each of the main openings...this is crucial to becoming a better player. So yeah...I don’t buy the whole “your not good enough to study openings”. I wish I hadn’t waited so long to start.
Interesting. I think the opening being considered affects whether beginners should play. For example, learning the London System is a good idea even if u are fairly low-rated. The Sicilian, probably not so much. In response I will say though, DROP the KG. It is practically refuted and may work against weak defenders, but strong players will crush u easily.
I think most of the theoretical workload comes from allowing dxc4 early. You can sidestep this by not playing c4 right away. You allow some things by doing this, but they are not as sharp as allowing dxc4. Also, the modern main lines with Nc6 are quite specific. I did not learn anything in terms of thematic ideas.
Yeah KG is fun but can lead to some crappy positions when it doesn’t work out. The London has a special place in my heart lol but I’m ready for something new. Watched a couple of the Catalan videos it looked great but yeah it’s pretty involved. Gonna mess around with QG a bit. Any other suggestions I should look into?
It's not very good, but the scotch is fun, in my mind, and it's not quite bad
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Like everything in chess, "it depends." If I were a talented young player aspiring to be a top-rated player I might want to follow the the IM's advice and avoid the Catalan (or any other complex opening), However, I'm an old run-of-the-mill player, and it doesn't make a lot of difference what opening I play. I probably don't have th,e positional understanding to play the more complex openings against advanced players, but my opponents are not advanced players, and we're on our own after a few moves. As a result, the choice of openings is immaterial, and I might as well play whatever opening appeals to me.