Another variation of this is
This way there is no loss of tempo. I lost a game recently against this as black.
The Center Game
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hi jason.i posted a forum.could you pls look at it?
by epicdragon44 4 hours ago
Reply | Delete | Block- Really? Are you asking a Sicilian player about this? I have no idea.
Fridaychimp wrote:
Another variation of this is
This way there is no loss of tempo. I lost a game recently against this as black.
really?
according to the chess.com game explorer, that's the scotch game.but thanks, i'll play the scotch game against you next time i come to ur house.
anyways i see how there is no loss of tempo.http://www.chess.com/explorer/?black=0&ply=9&id=370
[COMMENT DELETED]
Jul 18, 2015
0
#6
The d-pawn is not gambited in the opening, unless after 2...exd4, white continues with c3, Nf3 or Bc4 (a non-recapture). The Center Game follows 2...exd4 with Qxd4. Usually then Black will play Nc6 and attack the Q, which retreats to e3. White will play Nc3, Bd2 and 0-0-0. It's playable.
everyone not Jackfast, please skip over the comment below.all i do is rage at him, and tell him my line of reasoning.read it if you need clarification on my origional post though.
jackfast wrote:
epicdragon44 wrote:
Please tell me about the center game opening, and everyone's opinion.
My rating is horrible, just downright appalling, so pls dont judge whatever I say too harshly.I just miscalculate and blunder a lot.
So...
The center game is an opening in which white gambits the queen pawn for aggressive, sharp, and tactical play,as far as i can tell, as well as a huge loss of tempo.it generally looks like the diagram that is somewhere in this post, and 99/100 of the time black accepts and takes it, followed by the queen taking it, the black knight to c6 (thus the loss of tempo)and the queen retreating to e3, whereas the other black knight moves forwards, and there ends the definitive center game.while it is obviously a very old(because of its simple idea) and bad opening, i have won a few games with it, and want to know, what exactly are its merits?are there any?any motives?the only one I can find is that it conforms completely to any sharp tactician player, and motivates fast and aggressive center play.i also know that it prevents a clogging of the center, but im not sure if thats a big advantage.please inform me.
(What I am thinking about your post)
(Why is a 700 rated person trying to teach chess.com something
The center game is an opening in which white gambits (not in the variation you are telling about) the queen pawn for aggressive (not in the variation you are telling about), sharp (not in the variation you are telling about), and tactical play (not in the variation you are telling about),as far as i can tell, as well as a huge loss of tempo.it generally looks like the diagram that is somewhere in this post, and 99/100 (maybe at the 700 playing level but above 1500 it is maybe 1/100) of the time black accepts and takes it (??? 2.Nf6 2.Nc6) , followed by the queen taking it (That's just dum) , the black knight to c6 (thus the loss of tempo)and the queen retreating to e3 (Why would white block his own light squared bishop), whereas the other black knight moves forwards, and there ends the definitive center game.while it is obviously a very old(because of its simple idea) and bad opening, i have won a few games with it, and want to know, what exactly are its merits?are there any (Danish Gambit against a lower rated player) ?any motives?the only one I can find is that it conforms completely to any sharp tactician player (no, it doesn't, I am a sharp tactical player and I find openings like the scotch gambit, italian game, ruy lopez, scotch game, latvian gambit, philidor defense and Qxd4 in the center game(still just doesn't... all to be passive, the things that somewhat sastify a true tactician heart are the yugoslav attack and austrian attack(only the variation where white sacrifices the knight on c3)), and motivates fast and aggressive center play(No, it does not).i also know that it prevents a clogging of the center(somewhat), but im not sure if thats a big advantage (a disadvantage).please inform me.
The most common line is the Danish Gambit when white plays e4 e5, d4 exd4
well, i'm sorry if i got a few things wrong...
and i dont think thats the danish, according to this other book i read somewhere very long ago(3rd grade chess club)THATS NOT THE DANISH, its the Goring gambit, with 2 little dots over the o in Goring, or something like that.the danish just ends somewhere around 2.d4 exd4 and then its the Gory one from then.
I don't like gambits where you just clear out all those pawns.one pawn max, and for something worth it, even if they decline.thats why i actually like the queen's gambit most.king's is too sharp.
oh, and ur comment:
no, it doesn't, I am a sharp tactical player and I find openings like the scotch gambit, italian game, ruy lopez, scotch game, latvian gambit, philidor defense and Qxd4 in the center game
yea...look at that...i'll put it again...
Qxd4 in the center game!
that/s EXACTLY what i'm talking about.
and really, i could just not provide you with my understanding of the center game and tell you to google(or baidu it in china)it, but that is what i did.
sorry if the confusion is because of my horrible algebraic notating skills.
a few other things...
according to every site with info on the center game i went on,it is exactly as describe it.almost verbatim!
i fixed the gambit line, that was a large mistake, and i admit that.
and yes the queen retreats there. you wouldn't expect us to send it out too far early in the game, or all the way back to its starting position, would u?
just raging here.dont like ur attitude.not one teensy bit
thanks all
and yes jackfast, that's what i'm talking about.thanks.
Fiveofswords wrote:
and yeah there is some confusion about which line you are speaking of. the danish would be c3 instead of qxd4. but qxd4 is not a gambit.
Are you sure? Isn't the main line
Someone with more intimate knowledge feel free to correct me, but I would think if White chooses 8.Qg3 (as opposed to 8.Bc4) he is gambiting the e-pawn.
Fiveofswords wrote:
Arawn_of_Annuvin wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
and yeah there is some confusion about which line you are speaking of. the danish would be c3 instead of qxd4. but qxd4 is not a gambit.
Are you sure? Isn't the main line
Someone with more intimate knowledge feel free to correct me, but I would think if White chooses 8.Qg3 (as opposed to 8.Bc4) he is gambiting the e-pawn.
if white plays 8 qg3 it does look like a gambit. but i dont know if this would be called main line. i seem to recall that shabalov often played the move f3 to cover e4. often also involved some kingside pawn storming.
Mega Database 2015 has 8.Qg3 played in 817 games, with 8.Bc4 in second at 238 games. Shabalov has three games after 7...Re8. He played 8.Qg3 all three times.
Fiveofswords wrote:
Arawn_of_Annuvin wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
Arawn_of_Annuvin wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
and yeah there is some confusion about which line you are speaking of. the danish would be c3 instead of qxd4. but qxd4 is not a gambit.
Are you sure? Isn't the main line
Someone with more intimate knowledge feel free to correct me, but I would think if White chooses 8.Qg3 (as opposed to 8.Bc4) he is gambiting the e-pawn.
if white plays 8 qg3 it does look like a gambit. but i dont know if this would be called main line. i seem to recall that shabalov often played the move f3 to cover e4. often also involved some kingside pawn storming.
Mega Database 2015 has 8.Qg3 played in 817 games, with 8.Bc4 in second at 238 games. Shabalov has three games after 7...Re8. He played 8.Qg3 all three times.
move 7 is pretty late in the game :p both sides have other playable options before this
Starting after 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Qxd4 here are the statistics:
3...Nc6, 6413 games; 3...Nf6, 67 games
4.Qe3 5881 games, 4.Qa4 234 games
4...Nf6 2640 games, 4...d6 1348 games
5.Nc3 1948 games, 5.Bd2 438 games
5...Bb4 1616 games, 5...Be7 230 games
6.Bd2 1782 games, 6.Bc4 2 games, 6.Bd3 2 games
6...O-O 1582 games, 6...d6 242 games
7.O-O-O 1538 games, 7.Bc4 17 games
7...Re8 1349 games, 7...d6 155 games
8.Qg3 816 games, 8.Bc4 352 games
It's pretty clear that the main line is the one I diagrammed.
Fiveofswords wrote:
its an offbeat opening to start with. The difference is rather semantic. If white goes into this 8 qg3 line i guess yes it looks like a gambit. we all know what a gambit is. But I see no reason to call the paulsen attack a gambit because it might/often has involved a gambit later. I am somewhat surprised that moves like 5...be7 were not played more...but the difference is rather academic. Everyone is going to look at you funny if you call the paulsen a gambit.
I don't think it's semantics. Clearly the continuation I gave is the most often played and if you look at different opening manuals I think it would be listed as the main continuation. Given the diference in number of games played between the first most played move and second most played moves I think it's fair enough to call it a main line.
As far as what it's called: I don't know the names of variations are most of the time, but it seems to me that if White is going to play the main line with 8.Qg3 then he is giving up a pawn for positional compensation which seems to fit the definition of a "gambit". So I guess the funny looks would come from those who are into names or something, I don't know.
I will say I have never seen this position before. I know of the Center Game but I have never played it or seen it played myself.
So please take what I am about to say with a grain of salt.
I will only comment to a few things. Since I feel like this is out of my area of expertise.
I put the position Arawn_of_Annuvin was talking about on a chess database which only showed game of human players who are title with rankings of 2200+ and up.
Which is the below position.
At move 8 black seems to have 2 responses.
I will give you the:
Whites winning percentage/Drawing/Blacks winning percentage
8...Rxe4
33.9% / 23.9% / 42.2%
8...Nxe4
28.6% / 14.3% / 57.1%
It seems like black has been winning more than white has in these continuations.
White has gambitted 1 pawn and in higher level chess if one side can not prove any compensation for the loss pawn. They often lose.
Obviously these are title players so black being up 1 pawn is like winning if white can't come up with some form of attack or compensation.
It seems by the stats that white has not proven. he has any compensation for the loss pawn. Which might be why this line isn't play as much?
If you want I can talk about the opening a little bit. I am not expert but maybe you can consider other options.
It seems like most players might be instead of playing the continuation you are recommending with 3.Qxd4. It seems like they are playing 3.Nf3
Maybe they have given up on the 3.Qxd4 continuation and believe 3.Nf3 is the better route.
By playing 3.Qxd4 white does lose a tempo since black can respond with 3...Nc6 hitting the queen.
Maybe the reason they play 3.Nf3 is so they don't lose the tempo with the queen.
The only tricky part would be if you do play 3.Nf3 the position might turn into a Scotch Game. Which means you will have to study some of the idea's in the Scotch line.
There is good news though. The good news is the Scotch Game is considered very respectable opening which means. Maybe if you play against an opponent you can try out your line with 3.Qxd4. Than if they know how to response correctly against you. For example if they play the line Arawn_of_Annuvin mentioned. Than in the next game you can consider playing 3.Nf3 against them.
Which means you will have some flexiblity to play either line. An since one line is sound and very respectible you can play that in some cases. An when you feeling like having some fun can give the 3.Qxd4 line a try.
Obviously, Many chess players out there have lines which they know are unsound and are not that great but they play them for fun from time to time.
However, when they need a win or if they are in a serious game they can always go back to another line which is considered sound and solid.
It seems like you can get away with doing such an approach.
It's one of the simplest ways of getting an opposite sides castling position.
Fiveofswords wrote:
Arawn_of_Annuvin wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
and yeah there is some confusion about which line you are speaking of. the danish would be c3 instead of qxd4. but qxd4 is not a gambit.
Are you sure? Isn't the main line
Someone with more intimate knowledge feel free to correct me, but I would think if White chooses 8.Qg3 (as opposed to 8.Bc4) he is gambiting the e-pawn.
if white plays 8 qg3 it does look like a gambit. but i dont know if this would be called main line. i seem to recall that shabalov often played the move f3 to cover e4. often also involved some kingside pawn storming.
i dont seem to remember Rxe4 in the Center Game for black.
everything else is what i remember
but please, i'm not asking for debate on this, i am asking for the center game's merits and disadvantages.
epicdragon44 wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
Arawn_of_Annuvin wrote:
Fiveofswords wrote:
and yeah there is some confusion about which line you are speaking of. the danish would be c3 instead of qxd4. but qxd4 is not a gambit.
Are you sure? Isn't the main line
Someone with more intimate knowledge feel free to correct me, but I would think if White chooses 8.Qg3 (as opposed to 8.Bc4) he is gambiting the e-pawn.
if white plays 8 qg3 it does look like a gambit. but i dont know if this would be called main line. i seem to recall that shabalov often played the move f3 to cover e4. often also involved some kingside pawn storming.
i dont seem to remember Rxe4 in the Center Game for black.
everything else is what i remember
but please, i'm not asking for debate on this, i am asking for the center game's merits and disadvantages.
It is the main line after 8.Qg3. It has been played 415 times (top players including Aronian, Harikrishna and Gustafsson) with 8...Nxe4 played 165 times.
Jul 22, 2015
0
#17
I can't help but post what is probably the most entertaining Danish Gambit game ever. As it's a piece of art, it shouldn't be over-analysed, just sit back and enjoy the beauty of it.
Edit for lazy readers: just click to the final move. Isn't that one of the most beautiful mates you have ever seen?
Wow cool game!
try to play e4 e5 Nf3
My rating is horrible, just downright appalling, so pls dont judge whatever I say too harshly.I just miscalculate and blunder a lot.
So...
The center game is an opening in which white trades the queen pawn for aggressive, sharp, and tactical play,as far as i can tell, as well as a huge loss of tempo.it generally looks like the diagram that is somewhere in this post, and 99/100 of the time black accepts and takes it, followed by the queen taking it, the black knight to c6 (thus the loss of tempo)and the queen retreating to e3, whereas the other black knight moves forwards, and there ends the definitive center game.
i have won a few games with it, and want to know, what exactly are its merits?are there any?any motives?the only one I can find is that it conforms completely to any sharp tactician player, and motivates fast and aggressive center play.i also know that it prevents a clogging of the center, but im not sure if thats a big advantage.please inform me.