The Grob's Attack, and Why We Don't Play it More???

Whenever I play white using the grob I struggle to compensate for the forseeable weakness on C2 and H4. I like playing it because it quickly exits well known book lines. I started a tourney
http://www.chess.com/tournament/grob5

For the Grob. I want to see how others respond to the weaknesses. I figured it would be a great learning experiance but not many have joined. I also bought Basman's Grob book but I don't think it address the long term weaknesses on those squares. Thoughts?

I don't play it because I don't have a plan in the Grob.

Because I credit my opponents with the good sense not to play 1. g4?! d5 2. Bg2 Bxg4 3. c4 c6 4. cxd5 cxd5 5. Qb3 e6?? 6. Qa4+.

The grob is fine for beginners, and go for cheap tricks.  What i dont like about it is that you fall in love with it, and you dont bother to learn/improve opening principles.

Basman's 2. h3 was creative in its own right.  I would not call that a wuss move in the least, rather a strategic handling of 1. g4.  

6. Bf5? is not necessary. The pawn is pinned.

6. e5! gives black a decent position.

If regurgitating general chess principles was all it took to win positions and games Pfren everyone including you would be a Grandmaster. Every time I see a post where you dismiss an opening on the strength of 1 or 2 moves and the rehashing of often repeated chess principles I'm reminded of something that Short (Someone who actually is a grandmaster) wrote, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening”. Yes, chess openings are important for providing some sort of an advantage, if any, for the middle game and on into the endgames. But openings are only as good as the person using them and against who.

Take for example the following, a 7 day a move on line correspondence game I played. I came out worse in the opening but Black sadly underestimated the quality of his defence and made poor 15, 16 & 17th moves

From King's Gambit:  A Son, A Father, and the World's Most Dangerous Game" by Paul Hoffman.

Tom Plenty on the topic: [Basman] "was not a real Gobster because he wouldn't gambit the g-pawn, but quickly defended it with another pawn.  He's a wimp -- no, I don't want to say that because I'd be insulting wimps.  Defense is for women.  It's the ladies' variation.  Real men sac the g-pawn."

If regurgitating general chess principles was all it took to win positions and games Pfren everyone including you would be a Grandmaster. Every time I see a post where you dismiss an opening on the strength of 1 or 2 moves and the rehashing of often repeated chess principles I'm reminded of something that Short (Someone who actually is a grandmaster) wrote, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening”. Yes, chess openings are important for providing some sort of an advantage, if any, for the middle game and on into the endgames. But openings are only as good as the person using them and against who.

Take for example the following, a 7 day a move on line correspondence game I played. I came out worse in the opening but Black sadly underestimated the quality of his defence and made poor 15, 16 & 17th moves

Black blundered by castling right into your attack.  Not sure that really recommends the Grob.

Did you actually read what I wrote? I was not trying to recommend the Grob. Not at all. I did say that Black blundered and you saying as such rather leads creedance to my point, It is not the opening but the person using it and against whom.

From King's Gambit, by Paul Hoffman,

"I was a diligent student then . . . I studied openings and endgames.  I read books.  I studied pawn structure and really tried to understand the game.  Then I fell in with the wrong crowd.   . . . Chess bums from the community at large. . . I played chain-smoking, pizza-eating, beer -swilling alcohlics, and these guys introduced me . . .  into the hustler world of unsound openings.  He discovered That he got the most pleasure in chess when he beat someone in 20 moves with a weird little trap that he was booked up on and his adversary wasn't."

  "Plenty's introduction to hustling was a book called 200 Traps in Fianchetto Openings.  "I remember being astounded that all these sweet traps were out there . . . The very last page of this book discussed the Grob.  "I knew this was the Holy Grail, the magic bullet that was going to take me to the next level  The Grob was full of really sleazy stuff.  When Black responds logically, White just comes in and murders him.  I've developed a taste for the quick kill.  Life would not be as wonderful without the Grob."

Pardon me, I must have gotten confused when you seemed to be disagreeing with IM Pfren when your positions actually agree quite a bit without you realizing it?  

Your argument starts to fall down at the GM level.  There's no recovery from playing an opening that gives away white's advantage and offers easy equality (or worse).  A GM will will latch onto that one opening weakness like a bulldog and never let go.

Show me where i directly disagree with him. In fact, I nether agree nor disgaree. What I do is take task with him constantly going into different threads and lambasting various openings simply based upon the regurgitation of dogmatic chess principles and very little else. It is neither contructive nor helpful. All it does is reaffirm the present dogma that a certain opening is bad. In the case of "Grob's Attack", if one was to accept such dogma without question I would never found out that rather than being total bad, it does have some interesting attacking options. However this is not to say I would ever play in a serious game, at least over the board. If people are happy to accept the dogma given by our so called titled betters then who am I to argue? However they are missing out on the wealth of discoveries they could be making for themselves.

As to your beleif that my statement falls over at GM level is a sweeping generalisation that presupposes that GM's are not human and are devoid of making mistakes. One example of the top of my head was the last World championships where Calsen had Anand by the balls as Black but let the advantage slip and Anand drew.

If i knew my opponents were going to castle into an attack i would play it.  But its not played often by good players for a reason.

Hey folks, less talking 'bout the Grob and more playing of it!  It's fun; who gives a shite if it's unsound or not; it's only unsound when they can prove it is.  I win with it 61% of the time, and I am terrible, but this style of play opens up the board and better yet the imagination.  Such pretension regarding "correct" play; meh. 

However this is not to say I would ever play in a serious game, at least over the board.

This is the key statement :).

As for the WC, "slips" are relative.  The slip you mentioned is at a play level that 99.99% of Grob players will never see.

I dont play the Grobs attack actually (ive tried it a few times with poor results), but i play any other kinds of unsound openings, like the Latvian, the Englund or the BDG.

Iam tired of self-defending me, why i play these crap.

Is a chess opening such a dogmatic thing, that only allows to play high-fashioned standard openings.

On amateur level, as 99% of us play, you can play nearly every opening, if you know the concepts and tactics.

Playing the Berlin Defence in Ruy Lopez or the Latvian Gambit with a rating of 1400 to 1800 makes no difference.

Only a good opening doesnt make you a good chess player...

I managed a draw in a Grob, though it was a theme tournament and I'm more concerned with playing against it as black.  Typically I'll throw in ...h5! so I can place a knight on f6 without it being chased by g5 (assumes gxh5 will be played), and if ...h5 .g5 then the pawn is too far forward to coordinate with an h-pawn for an eventual attack and the kingside gets locked down. 

Could a 1500 beat an IM with a computer prepared line, in an opening he has never seen?

Something like the Traxler Gambit perhaps.