The Pirc - the good, the bad, and the honest truth

I'll be honest here. I don't like opening theory. I like playing safe opening lines that I control and understand. I like maneuvering in closed and semi-closed positions. So I have picked lines that allow me to force the opponent into my game. I play the Glek, the closed sicilian, the King's Indian, the exchange caro kann with Bd3 and h3, and the Pirc. but to be honest, I have had a hard time using the Pirc above the 1800 level. maybe that is because i score wins with the early c6->b5 line with pressure on the e4 pawn but that doesn't work past 1800. anyway, today my new PIRC book arrived in the mail (along with an abridged version of Don Quixote in spanish - i love amazon prime!) so i hope that in a few weeks time i will be ready to either abandon the pirc, or be victorious in the higher levels of chess!

anyone here have thoughts on the pirc?? 

Nope, but I really like Don Quixote!

I'm only just learning a little bit about the Pirc, to play against it as white, but I thought the main point was to play either e5 or c5 to attack the center. I don't think I've seen a c6 -> b5 line. Perhaps that line only works against particular white setups, and you need to try other lines against other setups? I guess your book should help with that. Which book is it, anyway?

--Fromper

I feel in today's world of computers, that just about any decent (well analysed) opening is playable. I.E. Thanks to their calculating power, many opening lines can better be defended/utilized by studying the computers analysis. Back in the days of old masters may have denounced such openings as the Pirc (just an example, this is not a quote) as either too slow, or maybe not sufficient for equality. Any opening that requires an entire book of deep analysis, let alone even played by top level GM's such as Topolov, certainly can't be all that bad.

As long as you are comfortable with the positions that transpire from an opening of choice, then so be it. It can be argued that it is not so much the opening you need to worry about, but achieving the positions you most enjoy playing. Thus, any opening that helps you to arrive at those positions is suitable for you. 

Erik, I agree with you about the Pirc. It's sort of like Alekhine's Defense in that they both work just fine against beginning and intermediate players, but it seems to be much, much tougher to reach a decent position vs stronger players (more so than in other openings). It's rare to see either one at the very highest levels of chess, so many of the top GM's would probably agree with you.

As the Pirc is a tamer version of the Sicilian Dragon, I think "Gecko" is a better name.

As with an semi-open game, White must avoid getting overextended. Many a good attack runs out of material because of impatience. I like white here but could easily see myself playing black. No weaknesses, active piece play and clear stategic goals. I might try playing it myself.

Here is the link to the book Erik just bought:

http://www.amazon.com/Pirc-Black-White-Detailed-Enterprising/dp/1857444329/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1200078331&sr=8-1

Pirc allows for what is called "eight-pawn chess", and is considered a good way to keep winning chances against a weaker opponent.

But against a stronger player, you need to know your stuff and counter-attacking ideas quite well 

All in all a rich defence, which leads to various play and has room for improvisation. 

Some strong player I know thinks a bit like Fotoman and told me once : "after playing the Pirc for a few years, you know why you play the Sicilian"

I started playing the Pirc a couple months ago. My idea was to  consolidate my defenses down to the KID and the Pirc since they are similar in many ways and provide a good response to almost any White opening. Anyway, to the best of my knowledge, there hasn't been any demonstration of a way in which White can force a better game with correct Black play. Even the trendy 150 attack can't force an advantage.

The b5-c6 pawn setp is usually seen after Black has played e5. The general strategic goal as I understand is indeed to develop pressure on e4 with moves like Re8 and Bb7. Then at at opportune moment, Black can transpose into the Philidor Pirc with exd4, fllowed by b4 forcing the c3 knight away from the defense of e4. Often, c5 can be played to, taking more space in the center and on the Queenside.

Erik, I suspect that the reason you are having more difficulty above the 1800 level is because you just need to know a lot more theory at that point. Below 1800, few people study the Pirc much, so you are probably the most knowledgeable about your opening at those ratings. I, too, just received The Pirc in Black and White, and it looks like it will definitely fill you in on all of the recent theory of the opening. If you don't already have it, I also recomment Pirc Alert! by Alburt and Chernin. The theoretical section is a bit dated, but the section discussing the themes and strategic underpinnings of the Pirc is fantastic.

I don't really know all strategies and tactics, because I'm quite new in chess (I'm only 15) but i inted to learn the pirc defence and try playing it.

Well anyway I just wanted to say that I'm proud of him because Pirc was Slovenian and one of our greatest chess players. And as I've read he really studied this opening many years so I belive too that you (Erik) must have made some mistakes in middle game and you can't blame an opening for bad results. I think that if you're playing/studying chess 10 years you can't say that it is a bad opening when playing with players better than you!

erik said, "I'm now reading "The Pirc in Black and White" by James Vigus." This book has had good reviews. After that book, try "Tiger's Modern," which may help give you more Pirc-Modern-Hippo flexibility. However, whatever opening you play will be seen through the lens of your current level of ability.

I think his point is that it's harder for him to get into a decent middlegame against 1800+ players using the Pirc compared to other openings he has used. I've heard this complaint about the Pirc from others as well.