That one, the engine line is an a pawn sacrifice by black. And white can play 5e3.
Ragozin, keeps the center , and is reliable. This Vienna is an option for one situation. Thats a big investment....for a lower eval than Ragozin.
The Vienna Variation
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Stockfish says you equalize though, and you get a lot of piece activity in turn for giving up the center, like the Grunfeld.
Sure...i think you start off better as black if white plays e4....such as Qa4+. But as moves go by you have to play engine perfect since down a pawn. The game I once saw white made an off line play after that and black missed and lost...basically you are giving up a pawn to draw in theory.
As far as QGA equal...yeah the engines say that. Im too orthodox for that. I will dxc4..if the light squared bishop has already moved...but yeah....QGD
Dec 7, 2020
0
#5
It's one of those openings that have been respected by top GMs for a long time, for example was played in the AVRO 38 tournament, but has not become very well known to club players. 6Qa4ch is not very testing, 6Bc4 is a dangerous pawn sac, and 6Bg5 c5 7Bc4 pxp 8Nxp BxNch 9pxN is the main line position. BTW in a vote chess a CM described this position as completely lost for black, although Aronian, for example, has played 40+ games from this position. It does illustrate why not very well known to club players, the resulting positions are very concrete, you can't get very far with general principals.
Mr_Winawer wrote:
Wondering what your thoughts are about the Vienna variation in the Queens Gambit Declined. (None of this 1.e4 2.Nc3 stuff) It seems to get black a good position immediately, but you do not see it as often as the Ragozin or Semi Slav at the Super GM level.
Here is my latest game with it. (I think it is my only game on chess.com with it. I usually play on another certain website) I made a few inaccuracies in the opening, but was able to get a lot of activity.
avoiding the 6.Bxc4 lines
Jan 26, 2021
0
#7
algorithmicRecursion wrote:
Mr_Winawer wrote:
Wondering what your thoughts are about the Vienna variation in the Queens Gambit Declined. (None of this 1.e4 2.Nc3 stuff) It seems to get black a good position immediately, but you do not see it as often as the Ragozin or Semi Slav at the Super GM level.
Here is my latest game with it. (I think it is my only game on chess.com with it. I usually play on another certain website) I made a few inaccuracies in the opening, but was able to get a lot of activity.
avoiding the 6.Bxc4 lines
Yes but you do have to know some more ragozin theory, like 5. cxd5 and 5. Qa4
emchel wrote:
algorithmicRecursion wrote:
Mr_Winawer wrote:
Wondering what your thoughts are about the Vienna variation in the Queens Gambit Declined. (None of this 1.e4 2.Nc3 stuff) It seems to get black a good position immediately, but you do not see it as often as the Ragozin or Semi Slav at the Super GM level.
Here is my latest game with it. (I think it is my only game on chess.com with it. I usually play on another certain website) I made a few inaccuracies in the opening, but was able to get a lot of activity.
avoiding the 6.Bxc4 lines
Yes but you do have to know some more ragozin theory, like 5. cxd5 and 5. Qa4
I was considering the Ragozin, but really did not like Qa4+
Jan 26, 2021
0
#9
Well, the vienna is perfectly viable, just the 6. Bxc4 lines that are the most annoying
SF12 NNUE prefers Vienna variation rather than semi-slav or Ragozin. I think it is perfectly playable, but may lead to some very sharp positions. Maybe superGMs don't want to play it without an extremely deep preparation.
SotaFujii wrote:
SF12 NNUE prefers Vienna variation rather than semi-slav or Ragozin. I think it is perfectly playable, but may lead to some very sharp positions. Maybe superGMs don't want to play it without an extremely deep preparation.
They play the Najdorf and the Grunfeld
Mr_Winawer 写道:
SotaFujii wrote:
SF12 NNUE prefers Vienna variation rather than semi-slav or Ragozin. I think it is perfectly playable, but may lead to some very sharp positions. Maybe superGMs don't want to play it without an extremely deep preparation.
They play the Najdorf and the Grunfeld
HAHAHA, I don't know the reason why they don't prefer Vienna. In my opinion, SuperGMs opening choices are hard to understand. They like complicated positions and plenty of possibilities. But I don't know more above that.
Jan 26, 2021
0
#13
I think the main reason why Vienna is not as popular the the top level as, the ragozin for exemple, is because of this 6. Bxc4 line. Whenever top players do play the vienna, the most popular reply is 6. Bxc4.
Optimissed wrote:
It's actually a variation of the Queen's Gambit Accepted that you're showing. It's the QGA variation where white develops both knights before the e pawn. It isn't common because it isn't all that good.
I'm surprised no-one has picked up on that.
Check the opening explorer. It is called the Vienna QGD. Generally, moving the knight to c3 in QGA is bad, but in the Vienna, you take afterwards, which means the knight is on c3., and can be a bit troublesome sometimes
Optimissed wrote:
Opening Explorer isn't very well programmed and it's full of errors. White could transpose into a Vienna QGD by playing Bg5, after which black would probably reply with c5 and then we have a Vienna. However, white didn't play Bg5 so it isn't a Vienna.
If you understand and can follow notation, then after
1. d4 d5
2. c4 dc
3. Nf3 e6
4. Nc3 Nf6
5. e4 Bb4
we have a slightly unusual QGA. However, the Batsford book I learned the QGA from in about 1989 did have a chapter on it.
White can continue with Bg5 ...c5 and we have a Vienna, but in your game, white deviated with Qa4, which happens to be a thematic and very well-known QGA-type move.
So don't place your trust in Openings Explorer, which is well known to be rubbish. If you don't have a great deal of Q-side openings knowledge, as seems likely, try to obtain some chess books from the mid to late 80s and maybe the very early 90s, which was the golden age of chess writing. Books from this era tend to be very organised and systematic, rather than following the bad idea of giving master games and a few comments. Instead they tackle the subject by splitting it all up into variations and tackling them systematically.
I said all that twice buts it's important. You would learn a lot.
You don't have to play Bg5 for a Vienna. The Vienna comes after:
And this assessment is not coming from the opening explorer. Many videos and courses say that this is the Vienna, along with many books. For example, Jan Gustaffson calls this the Vienna in his video series, and provides an entire repertoire on it. Sam Shankland tackles it from the white side, and says the Vienna arises after this position, and it can be dangerous for white if he does not know what he is doing.
Wondering what your thoughts are about the Vienna variation in the Queens Gambit Declined. (None of this 1.e4 2.Nc3 stuff) It seems to get black a good position immediately, but you do not see it as often as the Ragozin or Semi Slav at the Super GM level.
Here is my latest game with it. (I think it is my only game on chess.com with it. I usually play on another certain website) I made a few inaccuracies in the opening, but was able to get a lot of activity.