Thoughts on the Pirc

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CaroKannEnjoyer02

This is the Pirc. I rarely hear any discussion about it, and most people always see it as extremely passive. I am curious about other views on this underrated defense.

xXHazzaBXx

One of the best openings. Pirc is basically just the King's Indian Defence, but you have to play 1... d6 first because white can push e5 if you bring your knight out first.

blueemu

I used to occasionally play the c6/b5 wing version of the Pirc.

Ethan_Brollier

Pirc would be great if White didn’t just have such a MASSIVE initiative. Black is hanging by a thread if White plays perfectly and I genuinely think there are only one or two lines where Black doesn’t lose by force against a computer.

blueemu

4. ... c6 is rather better than 4. ... Bg7.

I used to play exactly that line, intending a transposition into the Ruy Lopez Breyer Defense.

The point is that in the Breyer Variatoin of the Ruy Lopez...

... the Black b8-Knight takes three moves to reach d7 (Nb8-c6-b8-d7) and the Black f8-Bishop also takes three moves to reach g7 (Bf8-e7-f8-g7); while if I transpose into that line from the Pirc (which of course requires a late e7-e5) then I can reach that same type of position with four extra moves (!) since the Knight and Bishop each reach their stations in a single move.
 
Ethan_Brollier
blueemu wrote:

4. ... c6 is rather better than 4. ... Bg7.

I used to play exactly that line, intending a transposition into the Ruy Lopez Breyer Defense.

The point is that in the Breyer Variatoin of the Ruy Lopez...

... the Black b8-Knight takes three moves to reach d7 (Nb8-c6-b8-d7) and the Black f8-Bishop also takes three moves to reach g7 (Bf8-e7-f8-g7); while if I transpose into that line from the Pirc (which of course requires a late e7-e5) then I can reach that same type of position with four extra moves (!) since the Knight and Bishop each reach their stations in a single move.
 

I saw your post last year which included a KID-setup anti-London which transposed to the setup of a Breyer Ruy Lopez (and have linked it below), but I have my doubts that that would work against the Sveshnikov-Jansa Pirc.

While Black’s setup may remain consistent throughout the Breyer Ruy Lopez, KID setup anti-London, and Sveshnikov-Jansa Pirc, White’s setup varies DRASTICALLY. In the Breyer, every move makes sense in context, even if not the objective best there is a solid reasoning behind it for both sides. In your London game, Black’s moves made much logical sense, but White played somewhat haphazardly and didn’t recognize that taking a space advantage would have been relatively free until far too late. In the Sveshnikov-Jansa (Mainline Pirc with 4… c6 5. h3! Bg7 6. f4 0-0 7. Nf3 b5 et cetera), all of White’s moves make much logical sense but it is now BLACK who is not attempting to make any sort of counterplay against White’s massive center.

A Curious Transposition from the London System to the Breyer Ruy Lopez

satan_llama

It is okay, but not worth it. I mean there's a lot of other lines where black gets easier counterplay. But I hate the pirc because I find it hard to play for a win against a player who's booked up to the teeth.

Poweranony
The early 4.h3-5.g4 lines against the pirc are hard to defend correctly. White has pretty much 10+ different ways to play against the pirc but those h3-g4 lines are my favorite setup against it
Commando_Droid

I wouldn't use the Pirc as a primary opening. Black just lacks space.

ebombayed_chesscareer

If they push their E-pawn after putting two pawns in the center you'll win a pawn

satan_llama

The only version of the pirc I hate is the wing one where black plays an early c6-b5. It stops the typical opposite side castle ideas.

CaroKannEnjoyer02
satan_llama wrote:

The only version of the pirc I hate is the wing one where black plays an early c6-b5. It stops the typical opposite side castle ideas.

Thats (from what I know) the best way to play against the opposite side castling as black. If you mean you hate playing that as black, what?

windthegreat

Hi. I dont really have any sources to study openings in depth,but I think I understand the pirc with white now. Is there anything I can improve in the opening section of this game?https://www.chess.com/game/live/97691998417

CaroKannEnjoyer02
windthegreat wrote:

Hi. I dont really have any sources to study openings in depth,but I think I understand the pirc with white now. Is there anything I can improve in the opening section of this game?https://www.chess.com/game/live/97691998417

Black didnt really play the pirc, or anything like the usual pirc setup. I think you played a very good game. Then again I am a lot worse than you soooo

Ethan_Brollier
windthegreat wrote:

Hi. I dont really have any sources to study openings in depth,but I think I understand the pirc with white now. Is there anything I can improve in the opening section of this game?https://www.chess.com/game/live/97691998417

The only thing I’d recommend is not playing 4. f3. It doesn’t do… anything, considering 3. Nc3 already protects e4. If you want to advance g4 for a kingside assault, go with 4. Be2, as then you develop a piece, don’t potentially expose your king, and don’t commit to anything, so you can still castle kingside or decide to play on the center/queenside later. 
Aside from that, that was just a really good way to play against the Pirc. Hold the center, develop the battery, kingside pawn storm, sac sac mate.

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