What are the benefits of 1. e4 Nc6?

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Horn-Call
Obviously, we both played this game pretty poorly. I did particularly bad in the opening, but I'm wondering if anyone can explain what benefits Black has by playing this way. After 1. e4 Nc3 2. Nf3 I've always just seen people play 2...e5 and it is normal but the computer recommendation and what this opponent played was 2...e6 and 3...d5. It seems that Black ends up with a bad version of the advanced French since he doesn't have the quick c5 break that's so important. Does anyone want to shed some light on this? I'm curious about it.
Yigor

Well, Nimzo defense 1...Nc6 is kinda flexible (U don't fix your pawn structure) giving the possibility to avoid the King's Pawn game (if U want it for some reason). Then, indeed, U can choose between Scandinavian 2...d5 and French 2... e6. Btw, 2. Nf3 for white vs Nimzo defense is suboptimal. It's better and sharper to play 2. d4. blitz.pngpeshka.png

darkunorthodox88
Yigor wrote:

Well, Nimzo defense 1...Nc6 is kinda flexible (U don't fix your pawn structure) giving the possibility to avoid the King's Pawn game (if U want it for some reason). Then, indeed, U can choose between Scandinavian 2...d5 and French 2... e6. Btw, 2. Nf3 for white vs Nimzo defense is suboptimal. It's better and sharper to play 2. d4. 

this is simply not true. 2.nf3 is the most common choice among masters for a reason. Black's choices are limited after 2.nf3. he must either transpose to king pawn openings (not unheard of but hardly the kind of thing someone willing to play 1.nc6 would want in said game unless the king's gambit is your worst nightmare.)  or usually play some inferior version of some other defense. (1.e6 is a bad french, its basically the the 2.d4 d5 3.e5 nimzo without bf5, barely playable because of how cramped it is, and 2.nf3 d5 if white knows what he is doing is borderline busted. 2.nf6 also leads black to ugly positions.

 

this leaves 2.d6. Tony miles used to play this via 2.d6 3.nf6 4.bg4, then e6-d5 with or without 0-0 first. this lead to very good interesting positions, where the queen bishop was outside the pawn chain and black played for an attack via an early f6. sadly this line is refuted by both h3-g4 (when black plays e6) and the early d4-d5 plan after e6. sadly the defense bit the dust after that. 

 

fortunately, black can play2.d6 and pirc it. this move order has the advantage of completely bypassing the austrian attack, and black often gets KID positions with the added advantage of no c4. this is all well covered in the "the dark knight system" by Schuyler.

darkunorthodox88

benefits? less developed theory, unique positions, much sounder then its reputation ( if it wasnt for 2.nf3 being so popular, you would see 1.nc6 way more often

 

this leads to very exciting positions.
-if e5, black will play moves like bf5, e6, f6, and can choose to castle either side.
 
-if nc3, the game turns semi-open, or black can tranpose to the nc6 french ( playing french vs nc3 is WAY different than playing french vs nf3 here unless white allows you to transpose, the key reason is that black can now play bb4). suffice to say after dxe4 d5 nb8! nxe4 c6! almost equalizes right away
-exd5 leads to some crazy complications that resemble the chigorin defense but is far better objectively. the endgame lines with nf3 e5 lead to a bishop vs knight endgame where black is not worse if white can survive all the traps that is. black can also play ultra aggressive with bg4, 0-0-0 then e5 harrassing the d4 pawn.
 
black can also play 2.e5 usually leading to positions resembling the dusnt opening (1.nc3 d5 2.e4) and the two knights tango (1.d4 nf6 2.c4 nc6) and mikenas with c4 (1.d4 nc6 2.c4 e5.). the knight will hop around to g6, and black will play bc5 or go for doubling c pawns with bb4 and bxN, and play nf6, d6 0-0 and son. unfortunately one modern antidote is to simply transpose to scotch with 3.nf3. some lines with early h4 are also a bit muddy.
 
Yigor
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
Yigor wrote:

Well, Nimzo defense 1...Nc6 is kinda flexible (U don't fix your pawn structure) giving the possibility to avoid the King's Pawn game (if U want it for some reason). Then, indeed, U can choose between Scandinavian 2...d5 and French 2... e6. Btw, 2. Nf3 for white vs Nimzo defense is suboptimal. It's better and sharper to play 2. d4. 

this is simply not true. 2.nf3 is the most common choice among masters for a reason. Black's choices are limited after 2.nf3.

 

Hmm ... yeah, my fault, I wrote some conclusions too quickly. tongue.png 2. Nf3 has indeed more master's games and better stats for white than 2. d4.