What do you think about the Polish Opening/Orangutan? - Chess Forums - Page 4

Gibbilo

Nov 12, 2021

0

#61

I’m surprised no one really brought up some sort of classical Dutch via 1…e5 in response to 1.b4, that would be my first inclination as how to respond.

Any comments from thrillerfan or darkunorthodox? Is a Dutch type setup just inefficient? Or maybe it plays straight into the type of game a 1.b4 player would want?

Thnx

NM darkunorthodox88

Nov 12, 2021

0

#62

Gibbilo wrote:

I’m surprised no one really brought up some sort of classical Dutch via 1…e5 in response to 1.b4, that would be my first inclination as how to respond.

Any comments from thrillerfan or darkunorthodox? Is a Dutch type setup just inefficient? Or maybe it plays straight into the type of game a 1.b4 player would want?

Thnx

can you be more specific here? do you mean 1.b4 f5!? or something with 1...e5 and a later f5?

LawTonz

Nov 13, 2021

0

#63

darkunorthodox88 wrote:

LawTonz wrote:

darkunorthodox88 wrote:

LawTonz wrote:

darkunorthodox88 wrote:

LawTonz wrote:

It's an opening you can play for fun but if you play it exclusively you will only hurt yourself. I've never met an Orang-utan or Grob player who played good chess. A GM can make low quality openings work because they can consistently come up with creative and at least decent moves that don't make the position worse. Rosen comes up with creative ways to trick his opponent in his blitz games because he has the practical skills to do so. The average Stafford Player on the other hand only memorizes the Stafford theory and is completely lost as soon as they have to think for themselves. The fact that the resulting positions are bad doesn't help either.

The average club player who already have a bad chess understanding (e.g. no understanding of chess principles like central control, development) and bad chess skills (pattern recognition, calculation) will continue to make bad moves and decisions in an already difficult position.

My usual approach against obscure openings is to choose a good but rare sideline like the on suggested in comment #2 (Qd6). I won all my games against the Polish/Grob or any other bad opening while I struggle the most against openings like the sicilian.

If you are already a strong player you can make any opening work but if you haven't learnt the basics yet then playing bad openings all the time will only hurt your chess. Eliminate serious flaws in your play first and then you can experiment with whacky openings.

Ouch. I must suck balls then. I have played 1.b4 as my main opening since i was 1200 and my top master wins where with it.

You didn't read properly. You are not the "average" amateur player. You are an NM that has worked on his chess skills and is able to make the best out of every position. A bad player with bad chess skills, knowledge and understanding will on average make worse moves and decisions then you do.

i think you didnt read properly the part i mentioned i been playing b4 since i was 1200 (below in fact)

Are you serious? The point I'm making is that you are a NM who also has good overall chess skills. Why else would you be a NM??? Look at the average Grob and Orang-Utan player and you will see what low level chess looks like. Maybe I formulated it too strict but when I'm making such statements I don't include skilled chess players that have overall good chess skills.

so your argument is

1.X is bad player
2. X plays orangutan/grob.

ergo , X is bad player.

Gotcha.

Yeah, seems like you can't read. POS

tygxc

Nov 13, 2021

0

#64

Playing Orang-utan is no bad habit. Memorising main lines is a bad habit. Playing Orang-utan or Grob frees up resources to become a better player. Play chess, not openings.

LawTonz

Nov 13, 2021

0

#65

The stupidity in this thread is beyond repair. txgc and this sandbagging NM (must be fun losing all games on purpose, 220 rating yeah sure) have no clue what they are talking about.

1.g4 not violating opening principles? Ever heard of king safety before. Yes, with an engine you could play perfectly but any club player will have to make really difficult decisions since they always have to take into account the weakened kingside you pos.

and you don't even play the grob yourself txgc. you preach crap to the people but drink the wine yourself. While NM sandbagger at least has some skills and occasionally makes good comments you just troll around in the forums. Just look at what you wrote in that Computer chess forum. You are just a troll that believes its only lies. I never saw something so stupid before.

tygxc

Nov 13, 2021

0

#66

#66
"It is perfectly possible to play the Ruy Lopez without memorizing a bunch or variations. "
++ That is correct, it is how Capablanca played.

"Playing the grob violates such principles." ++ No, not necessarily. 1 g4 d5 2 h3! controls central squares e4 and d5 with Bg2 and by hindering ...Nf6 in view of the possible g5.

"even Basman who is known for playing obscure openings has played also regular openings"
++ Not really. He has played the Leningrad Dutch with ...Nh6. He has played French Rubinstein with ...Nf6 and ...gxf6. He has played the delayed Alapin. He himself said: "I am too lazy for all that theory."

NM darkunorthodox88

Nov 13, 2021

0

#67

LawTonz wrote:

tygxc wrote:

Playing Orang-utan is no bad habit. Memorising main lines is a bad habit. Playing Orang-utan or Grob frees up resources to become a better player. Play chess, not openings.

You make a bunch of wrong assumptions. It is perfectly possible to play the Ruy Lopez without memorizing a bunch or variations. Understanding basic chess principles like central control, king safety and development is essential to come up with good moves.

Playing the grob violates such principles. The first time a player played the grob against me I just took the pawn on g4 and one the game easily. One bad decision follows another.

Openings like the grob violate a lot of chess principles. It's better to learn proper chess first and only then play obscure openings. Several titled players had done that even Basman who is known for playing obscure openings has played also regular openings. He honed his skills for years to the point where he is able to make these openings work not the other way round.

The only people i know these days that insist on "proper chess" are half-baked coaches that want to mass produce a coaching technique instead of tailoring their lessons to their students preference. I will be the first to admit if i coached just to make a paycheck i would do the same. (i dont coach, just an example).

That some methods have been proven to work does not say anything on the efficacy of other methods.

NM darkunorthodox88

Nov 13, 2021

0

#68