What to play against the King's Indian Defense?

As White, what are some good lines to play against the King's Indian Defense? I'm 1800 OTB USCF rated. I'm thinking about playing the Bayonet attack.

I've heard some great things about it, but however, if it's so great, then why aren't top Grandmasters playing it? Or at least master-level or expert-level players? Is there something wrong with the Bayonet attack? If so, what are some good other lines? Thank you so much!

This variation is out-of-date. Black can equalize easily with Nh5 or even a5. I use KID as black and the most annoying for me is the Classical Fianchetto main line (E69).

If you don't want to face the KID, or any of the indian defenses, play a King pawn opening.

I also am a huge fan of the KID, and have no problem playing against the Bayonett Attack. Black's kingside attack gets rolling pretty quickly. As black, I absolutely hate playing against a KIA and Four Pawn's Attack.

Top GMs like Kramnik, Kasparov, and Van Wely have played the Bayonet attack. Cox also recommends it in his 1 d4 books. It's supposed to be very advantageous for White (supposedly Kasparov gave up the King's Indian Defense because of it).

Just wondering, Ruby7, what do you mean by "Black's kingside attack gets rolling pretty quickly?" Isn't white's queenside attack stronger and doesn't it give White a better position in the end? That is, assuming White correctly defends Black's kingside attack. Then again, I'm not too knowledgeable about the Bayonet Attack. Can you explain? Thanks.

I mean exactly what I mean. ;) I never said it's stronger or better...it's just pretty fast, and if left unchecked, is much more dangerous than white's queenside attack, in my opinion.

It is, however, much harder to break through a good defense by white, so there are some risks at that...if your attack doesn't make it, you're pretty much screwed. The KID's kingside attack is basically a counter-attack...it's dangerous, but once black devotes to it, he must keep playing with it in mind.

VelinStoyanov: Why do you hate playing against the Classical Fianchetto main line (E69)? Do you also hate playing against white's g3? (I was thinking since Black wants to attack, g3 would steer into a non-attacking-white's-king's-game) Thanks.

Ruby7 (and Collide): So basically if White defends his kingside well, he'll have an advantage that would be better than Black? If I'm good at defending, does that mean I should just play the Bayonet's? Thank you.

there is nothing wrong with the bayonet attack it has been used by kramnik against Kasparov.  Here is one game http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1070932

Yes...be warned, you will be VERY cramped on the kingside. :x

  My experience is that all Fianchetto variations give white a slightly easier game. In the first place, they give white solid space advantage. In the second place, they restrict black's counter-attacking options. And last but not least, the Fianchetto systems have  psychological effect on  black. Since most players who use the KID prefer sharp positions with chances for both sides, they don't feel comfortable in the strictly positional Fianchetto systems.

  I wouldn't assess the overall suitability or viability of a particular system by checking who of the greats uses it or has used it. There is quite a difference between us, the mortals, and Kramnik - one of the greatest players ever. He can afford  to play almost all openings, but can you? Below a certain level, say 2100, some lines, generally regarded as drawish otherwise,  are in favour of one of the sides. I claim that the Bayonett Attack is in favour of  black because they have a clear plan, while white have to deal with more problems. As white I would never seriously consider employing the Bayonett Attack, at least not at my current level. Instead, I prefer to set up a fianchetto and slowly squeeze the black.

I'm 1816 uscf, I just play the mainline.

White is supposed to be cramped on the kingside. So what. The bayonet is the best approach with the kings indian. The b4s are supposed to be superior to the kne1 or knd2. Check out the megadatabase opening survey on the kings indian. 40 pages of analysis. White is ahead throughout but must play precisely to win and the opening book memorizing is huge.Don't let Gallagers book against the KI intimidate you.

5. f3 isn't bad if you like to get away from those 25 opening book moves. On the server they seem to hesitate more when playing the Samisch as white.

I play KID since the very beginning and only recently changed to QGA. KID is very suitable for me because I think I'm good at planning a strategical timing attack and defense. Because of this understanding of the game I think KID is "refuted".

There are many "unsound" openings, but when it is complicated and unpredictable enough that everyone has a fair chance of winning (even from opponent's mistake or inability to play the game), it can be considered a "sound" opening. But things are not unpredictable anymore once you get the idea on how you should play the game.

Here is my undersanding on how to "refute" the KID:

1) Black will attack on the Kingside by compromising his Queenside. If Black doesn't want to compromise his Queenside then Black will transpose to Gruendfeld at some point. If Black is stubborn enough to continue with KID whatever variation is employed by White then he has to face the Saemisch or the Fianchetto variations.

2) Black will never be able to contest the Queenside. The Queenside belongs to White. So White has to be clever in how far/fast he is to attack the Queenside because he has to spare the "tempo" for defending the Kingside. Efficiency (pieces positioning and move order) is the key to do the simultaneous attack and defense.

3) And effective and efficient way to defend the Kingside is by not blocking the f-pawn. If it is blocked by Nf3 White will have difficulty to defend efficiently. Use the f-pawn as a defending resource and let go the King Bishop to do his productive job to attack. This is The SAEMISCH variation.

4) Another less ambitious but easy way to defend the Kingside is by "copying" what Black do with his Kingside, which is to fianchetto the King Bishop. White has to ensure that on the Kingside Black is not winning, and White should be happy with only slight advantage on the Queenside (because he has to maintain Kingside development as well).

The "characteristics" of a fianchetto Bishop that play a role in the second variation are: (a) Fianchetto Bishop is very effective and efficient (because one Bishop is strong enough) in defending a vertical attack, (b) Fianchetto Bishop is effective to support (pawn) attack on the other wing.

4-Pawn variation is the third "dangerous" variations White may choose from, which fits beginners well because of its space domination.

Sicilian Dragon has similar strategical features with the KID, but is more open and tactical so to ensure higher probability that White can go wrong. Now good luck with your KID

i always like king's indian

and queen's gampit declined

play mainline as a master, thats the one im most uncomfortable and prepared against

I usually play the fianchetto variation as white, but I am also fine with black transposing to the Neo-Grunfeld which is supposed to be quite easy for black to equalize. On the other hand, the Neo-Grunfeld probably isn't the type of black opening a KID player is looking for.

My personal recommendation since players become confused if they have to work really hard for the e5 break: