Which is the best defense against Fried liver attack?

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DoctorStrange

I am playing Fried liver attack since I started playing chess (2 years ago). But Ive never played it as black. I want to build up a repertoire and I need some suggestions. I've seen two responses against it:

 

  1. Two knights defense
  2. Traxler counterattack

I want to play it as black and which one should I work on?

DoctorStrange

I see traxler is very aggresive...

Pixenix

Id suggest playing something along the lines of the d5->Na5 line- Although black loses a pawn - you get initiative and a easy to play position. For an example game - you can look at my personal blog - i have posted one post which features a game in the line with my annotaions. 

jjeremmy

best defense, no be there.

MonkeyH

Don't forget about the Ulvestad variation(b5 instead of Na5) where black often gets a good development for the price of a pawn and the white knight on g5 often is badly placed, it's a variation of the two knights defense which I always play when I get the fried liver against me:

CaChessToffee

3...Bc5 is always a good option.

MSC157

MonkeyH, how do you prevent Nc3 or what to play next if Nc3?

grenoulle3000
Areg7 wrote:

Traxler is the best :)

Traxler is fine but it's not really sound. Ng5, which is an iffy move btw, followed by Bxf2+, is very playable and fun but it's not very sound.

grenoulle3000
Areg7 wrote:

It is absolutely sound and all lines if played well lead to equality- no known refutation to date.

I can't argue with you about this but I can say that my computer refutes the Traxler against himself.

grenoulle3000

I believe you. Traxler it is :)

MonkeyH
MSC157 wrote:

MonkeyH, how do you prevent Nc3 or what to play next if Nc3?

After Nc3 black get's a pawn back on g2, after trading the position is still pretty equal

grenoulle3000
Areg7 wrote:

Cool- what does your computer say? Any particular lines?

I just tried it again. From an Italian opening to Ng4 followed with Bxf2+, and it gives black a very slight advantage. At least equalized, so I guess you were right. I don't know what's up with that but I'm sure I tried it before and the computer beat black. I'm getting old :(

poucin

Theorically speaking, the best line is the main line with d5 and Na5...

5...b5 6.Bf1! and 5...Nd4 6.c3 b5 7.Bf1 lead to same position and are supposed to be dubious, but with lots of work it can be playable.

If u have a great memory, try some tricky lines like 5...b5/5...Nd4, or Traxler, but if u want to play safe and good chess, then go for the main lines which are more logical and sound, and will help u to improve your chess, instead of using gadgets...

poucin

Well, on my big database 2015, only 8 games played by a +2500 rated from black side...

While d5-Na5 stuff is played many many times...

I wouldnt call Traxler sound : tricky, risky, but sound?

For instance, what is your improvement on this simple and effective game?

White just takes f7 (with bishop of course), go back, and holds, not enough compensations for black here.

HolyKing

Personally I think ..d5 ...Na5 lines are the best. There is a reason why it is the mainline. As for the Traxler, it definitely does not enjoy the same reputation in soundness as the Benko or Marshall, Still, playing it gives important lessons on initiative and improving attacking skills. On the flip side if you intend on playing it, you woukd have to learn a good deal of theory as there are a lot of only move situations. Even when out of book, there will arise some strange looking moves which win on the spot but which is hard to find on the board.

As for me I really like the Ulevestad, Ive never seen anyone playing Bf1 which is the best move, and this leads to very good attacking chances for black early on. I have also faced the ...Nd4 line as white. I think its called Fritz var. (BTW I lost that game very badly)

nils78

Yes, Na5 (Morphy Variation) is the critical line and leads to equality. White gets advantage in the ..b5 lines.

Steikt

White players are prepared for Na5 and probably know how to play against it.

ThrillerFan

The bust to the Traxler is 5.Bxf7+ (5.Nxf7 is significantly weaker) Ke7 6.Bd5!

DoctorStrange

So Traxler agressive, while ...d5 and ..Na5 lines are safe?

Ok Traxler has no refutation.

But is it really good at my level?

I have never won a single game against Traxler.

DoctorStrange
CaChessToffee wrote:

3...Bc5 is always a good option.

Sorry we are talking about Fried liver attack not Guioco Piano