Which Opening is better: Catalan, Ruy Lopez or 1.c4 ?

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SigmaB011
Catalan Opening:

Ruy Lopez:

With better I mean the greater chances to fight for an advantage.

chessterd5

they are both reasonable and good. but neither are guaranteed to be played depending on what black chooses to play.

ThrillerFan

Many mistake the Catalan as a catch-all system. It is not!

The Catalan, like the Colle, only works with the LSB behind the pawn chain.

The Fianchetto KID, Benoni, and Dutch lines are totally different openings, and the fianchetto doesn't really work against Slav or QGA setups.

Viephi
ThrillerFan wrote:

Many mistake the Catalan as a catch-all system. It is not!

The Catalan, like the Colle, only works with the LSB behind the pawn chain.

The Fianchetto KID, Benoni, and Dutch lines are totally different openings, and the fianchetto doesn't really work against Slav or QGA setups.

What do you mean the fienchetto doesn't really work against the Slav? 3. g3 is an alright line in the Slav.

CaroKannEnjoyer02
Viephi wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

Many mistake the Catalan as a catch-all system. It is not!

The Catalan, like the Colle, only works with the LSB behind the pawn chain.

The Fianchetto KID, Benoni, and Dutch lines are totally different openings, and the fianchetto doesn't really work against Slav or QGA setups.

What do you mean the fienchetto doesn't really work against the Slav? 3. g3 is an alright line in the Slav.

I guess, but it isnt good. The bishop is staring at a brick wall, and black isnt under much pressure. (i am MUCH lower rated tho so I prob dont know crap compared to you)

Uhohspaghettio1

I think g3 lines are considered mildly dangerous against the Slav but not critical. Similar to the King's Indian Attack in general, which you could say the g3 Slav is part of. The disadvantage of the KIA is after all that you can't just play it against anything and expect it to work - g3 is critical theory against the queen's indian, the Slav is something it's not so good against.

If black is careful to avoid queenside expansion and long-diagonal tactics, and happy with a draw, g3 Slav is probably too passive.

sndeww
Viephi wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:

Many mistake the Catalan as a catch-all system. It is not!

The Catalan, like the Colle, only works with the LSB behind the pawn chain.

The Fianchetto KID, Benoni, and Dutch lines are totally different openings, and the fianchetto doesn't really work against Slav or QGA setups.

What do you mean the fienchetto doesn't really work against the Slav? 3. g3 is an alright line in the Slav.

g3 while the LSB is outside is a really good way to give black an easier position and slowly make things worse for yourself

satan_llama

G3 isn't that good against slav. But that being said, it is a very good line against the semi slav. I have tried playing G3 against bf5 slav and..... it's not that pleasant. You don't really have much pressure but it's somewhat playable.

sndeww

Yeah I’ve played it too, it’s pretty depressing

CharlestonViennaGambit

I bet that the catalan is best.

CharlestonViennaGambit

But the Vienna tops all.

Ethan_Brollier
CharlestonViennaGambit wrote:

But the Vienna tops all.

Vienna is the 5th best e4 e5 opening. The only things it tops are the Ponziani (barely) and the King’s Gambit.

Uhohspaghettio1

There are barely 5 competitive e4 e5 openings. The Ponziani is on the 3rd move.

Chuck639

I personally transpose between the Catalan and English depending on what black defends with as I find certain middle games more enjoyable.

Against a stronger player, I prefer a slow positional game playing for fine advantages and winning end games but this method involves longer time controls.

It boils down to if I want a bishop on g3, e2 or b3?

Viephi

First of all, I assume most of you who dislike the fienchettoed king's bishop against the Slav think it is not a good move on the premise that black can develop his bishop on f5 or g4 before committing to the move e6, creating the solid triangle. I'd suggest checking out some interesting lines emerging out of moves like Qb3 and Nh4 against Bf5 or Ne5 against Bg4 to you as I suspect you may the treat the position as if it is the closed Catalan, which it is not.
There are many other lines that black can choose of course, such as g6 setups or dxc4 continuations. However, it doesn't seem like any of you were concerned about these so...
@CaroKannEnjoyer02 Certain lines naturally weaken the diagonal, and also there's a possible pawn break with e4 in some continuations just as in the Catalan, which can release your LSB (especially after grabbing black's LSB with your knight). Finally, in some other lines you don't even care about it as you start to pressure the queenside with your pawns, particularly after the queen trade with Qb3-Qb6-c5 by white and Qxb3.
@Uhohspaghettio1 There is no such a thing that you can play against any opening/variation and expect it to be optimal. Again, check out the lines I've mentioned. Black's plan is not queenside expansion anyway. Black should in fact do something about white's threats over there in some lines that I've suggested.
@satan_llama If you mean immediate g3 after the Semi-Slav, I consider it to be less comfortable as it gives up the c4 pawn and we've already committed to Nc3 without having played Qd3 (as in Botvinnik Catalan).

CaroKannEnjoyer02
Viephi wrote:

First of all, I assume most of you who dislike the fienchettoed king's bishop against the Slav think it is not a good move on the premise that black can develop his bishop on f5 or g4 before committing to the move e6, creating the solid triangle. I'd suggest checking out some interesting lines emerging out of moves like Qb3 and Nh4 against Bf5 or Ne5 against Bg4 to you as I suspect you may the treat the position as if it is the closed Catalan, which it is not.
There are many other lines that black can choose of course, such as g6 setups or dxc4 continuations. However, it doesn't seem like any of you were concerned about these so...
@CaroKannEnjoyer02 Certain lines naturally weaken the diagonal, and also there's a possible pawn break with e4 in some continuations just as in the Catalan, which can release your LSB (especially after grabbing black's LSB with your knight). Finally, in some other lines you don't even care about it as you start to pressure the queenside with your pawns, particularly after the queen trade with Qb3-Qb6-c5 by white and Qxb3.
@Uhohspaghettio1 There is no such a thing that you can play against any opening/variation and expect it to be optimal. Again, check out the lines I've mentioned. Black's plan is not queenside expansion anyway. Black should in fact do something about white's threats over there in some lines that I've suggested.
@satan_llama If you mean immediate g3 after the Semi-Slav, I consider it to be less comfortable as it gives up the c4 pawn and we've already committed to Nc3 without having played Qd3 (as in Botvinnik Catalan).

I think I might understand a bit more now. The bishop can be utilized in its full glory once the board opens up (the e4 pawn break, potential trades) Thank you!

AngryPuffer

catalan is more positionally based and you take advantage of a potential open diagonal and a development advantage at the cost of a pawn

example:

and in the ruy lopez white uses his space advantage and the closed position to manuver his pieces around to the kingside and attack it, but white can also infiltrate the center, or the a file, its really his choice.

and 1.c4 is decent but 1.e5 is very annoying and black can easily be better if white does not know what hes doing, i dont recommend it to be honest

ChrssRanumitha

c4 is the best for reply for me and it is simple and easy not!!!

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