Who plays Grunfeld and why is it awesome?

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RoobieRoo

Greetings and salutations chess nerds.  I feel the need to play the Grunfeld against the Queen pawn but know nothing about it other than black allows white to get a center and then slowly chips away at it.  Who can tell me anything about this opening and why I should play it.  Actually I know why I should play it but its not entirely objective and perhaps there is a more logical reason.  

 
The Grunfeld
 

 

RoobieRoo
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Bishop_g5

Why you need an entirely objective reason?

Chess is a battle of ideas and most of the times we find what we like to play in the process of preparing an opening. The Gruenfeld in comparison with the KID can give most of the times more straightforward-forced lines because of the tension in the center being early relished but at the same time requires to know the concrete analysis, otherwise, you might enter a position you might think you are better or up an exchange but practically lost. 

Stylistically is for players like unbalanced positions, but be aware if you believe these are easy to handle. White has so many options for different setups which makes the need for knowing opening theory more than critical.

You don't need a logical reason to play the Gruenfeld. You will need a lot of logical thinking to justify your moves.

RoobieRoo
Bishop_g5 wrote:

Why you need an entirely objective reason?

Chess is a battle of ideas and most of the times we find what we like to play in the process of preparing an opening. The Gruenfeld in comparison with the KID can give most of the times more straightforward-forced lines because of the tension in the center being early relished but at the same time requires to know the concrete analysis, otherwise, you might enter a position you might think you are better or up an exchange but practically lost. 

Stylistically is for players like unbalanced positions, but be aware if you believe these are easy to handle. White has so many options for different setups which makes the need for knowing opening theory more than critical.

You don't need a logical reason to play the Gruenfeld. You will need a lot of logical thinking to justify your moves.

 

I don't need one but I want one.  People should be able to justify their opening choices. 

It leads to unbalanced positions is clear and concise. Entering positions where I think I am better but in reality prove to be worse could be said of any chess position that is complex.  I am not afraid of my opponents options either and at my level I don't think opening theory has any bearing at all, infact its negligible as most of my opponents and me are out of book by move ten if not before unless we are following a game in a database and the game is hardly ever decided in the opening.  I have no idea why players perpetuate the myth that at amateur level opening theory is important.   It can be proven empirically that it has little to no bearing on the outcome of the game.

It leads to unbalanced position is a good general reason, beyond that remains to be seen. 

Franklin_Whitsell

I have a 100 win game collection from Boris Gelfand and he says it is his favorite black opening in it.  I think if you can have a world class GM play your opening once in a while, then you really don't need much more justification.  

RoobieRoo

What i had actually hoped for was a kind of breakdown of general strategy.  Here is the structure that resulted from a game in the Grunfeld and its incredibly interesting and unbalanced.

As you can see white has a beautiful pawn centre with the chance to create a passed pawn in the centre but black has two beautiful unopposed passed pawns, which will determine the outcome? and what is the best way to take advantage of these elements.

 

RoobieRoo
Franklin_Whitsell wrote:

I have a 100 win game collection from Boris Gelfand and he says it is his favorite black opening in it.  I think if you can have a world class GM play your opening once in a while, then you really don't need much more justification.  

Actually I do need more justification than that. For while I appreciate the sentiments it must be understood that what's good for Boris Gelfand and his perspective may have little bearing on my own, he is a super Gm an I am a patzer.

Bishop_g5
robbie_1969 wrote:

 

I don't need one but I want one.  People should be able to justify their opening choices. 

 

 

That is definitely a Myth. The only think requires justification is your moves. 

Pulpofeira

Grunfeld is so good that I'm trying to refute it, so no one plays it again against me. If you want a game anytime, I'll play Exchange Variation.

RoobieRoo
Bishop_g5 wrote:
robbie_1969 wrote:

 

I don't need one but I want one.  People should be able to justify their opening choices. 

 

 

That is definitely a Myth. The only think requires justification is your moves. 

if we don't know why we play 1.e4 then what hope is there for us?  surely we have a reason?  'its a good move' is just not good enough, there are many other good moves.

RoobieRoo
Pulpofeira wrote:

Grunfeld is so good that I'm trying to refute it, so no one plays it again against me. If you want a game anytime, I'll play Exchange Variation.

send me an unrated challenge, I wanna see what this Grunfeld is all about, 3 days, Pistols or French foils! at dawn!

Pulpofeira

Sorry, everytime I try to say en garde I pee myself with the laugh.

RoobieRoo

wait till you see my Grunfeld, you'll be hospitalized with laughing!

Rat1960

@robbie_1969 - When I played at my peak in the 1970's and 1980's I used to get the above structure in many exchange variation games. The most common result was a passed pawn on the q-side and a win.
In some games I lost the pawn but was able to exchange bishops and hold the 3 v 4 rook ending.

RoobieRoo

most excellent rat1960, yes most excellent indeed! I was looking at some games where black even gives up the exchange but his dark squared bishop and the queenside pawns is more than a match for the two rooks

workhard91

Grünfeld is a hypermodern opening where black attacks the center with active piece play. Since it is a very forcing opening you can go quite deep in preparation with a computer. It is difficult for white to prove any advantage against a well prepared Grünfeld player and therefore many good players like to play it. Also it can lead to quite unbalanced positions if white allows that. However it is also a very difficult opening to handle and there are many lines to be memorized. Not an ideal choice for beginners who benefit more by learning about Chess in general.

RoobieRoo

excellent another great reason, its difficult for white to prove an advantage! happy.png

Bishop_g5
robbie_1969 wrote:

excellent another great reason, its difficult for white to prove an advantage!

 Not that, at your level that's hardly the case, but when a reason justifies our cause to find motivation then everything becomes relative: You will not start playing the Gruenfeld and your opponents have a hard time to prove an opening advantage. I can guarantee that to you.

The great reason you are referring to, it will easily become an excuse to abandon the Gruenfeld.

RoobieRoo

Yes a so called opening advantage has practically zero relevance for me, still, its good to know that at the higher echelons its difficult to prove one. Actually I don't abandon much for as was previously stated the opening usually has little relevance to the actual outcome of the game.  I like the positions and the games are interesting, that is enough for me as it means that I will continue to assimilate ideas from my own research.  After playing the semi slav against the queen pawn because I don't know any opening theory its rather pleasant to have an opening that I know at least the first few moves.  One must also remember that at my level my opponents also must tread carefully for fear of being lost in the complications. wink.png

RoobieRoo

 

12...b6 I chose because i did not like the position after 12..Bg4 although in retrospect it seems fine. 

 

16.Re1, if white wants a draw probably he could repeat the position with Bc4 and Bb5 perhaps?

 

21...Nd8 was my own idea to prevent white sacrificing on f7after something like ...Na5.  An interesting game played by the legendary Eric Lobron.