Trading on c3 is normal in these positions but after dxc5 I'm not so sure. Black might be able to fight for the d4 square.
Sure they're tripled, but one of them is an extra pawn, so that doesn't matter. Another will probably be used to break in the center with c4, so that's fine too. So it's actually more like a single isolated pawn on c2 meanwhile black has dark square weakness and the development will probably be slower than whites.
5. dxc5?! is rare and I don't think go well with the opening. The most natural move 5 ..Bxc5?! is not good due to 6. Qg4!, same with Bxc3?!.
However one important thing to notice is that the move 5.dxc5?! itself does not actually threaten anything, and that pawn will be lost sooner or later. Black does not need to play Bxc3 or Bxc5 at all and can simply keeps the pin there. By not moving the bishop Black has a tempo to do something else. Black will get this tempo back a lot of the time because white will eventually need to play a defending move (say Bd2) to avoid triple pawns or a direct tempo loss move (a3) to break the pin.
5 ..Ne7! is the computer move and makes perfect sense for example. If 6. Qg4, black can either defend by Bxc3 and then Ng6, or the much better 6 ..Nbc6!, temporaily sacing 2 pawns (if white does Qxg7 at all. It is very risky). Black will get back the pawns sooner or later against the weaknesses, and with huge development and play.
White is doing fine, his dark squared bishop might even go a3, he can give up the pawn if he wants, there's Qg4.... so many ideas. A lovely position to play as white, I can't understand black at all. Usually that's bad (when in a major opening), but the French is so easy for me to play as white: just simple, logical moves.
I have to say, players around my level really don't know how to win with the french at all. I've hardly studied the french and get great positions, and the worst that can happen is a draw. In the steinitz variation in particular black never seems to have much clue.
White is doing fine, his dark squared bishop might even go a3, he can give up the pawn if he wants, there's Qg4.... so many ideas. A lovely position to play as white, I can't understand black at all. Usually that's bad (when in a major opening), but the French is so easy for me to play as white: just simple, logical moves.
I have to say, players around my level really don't know how to win with the french at all. I've hardly studied the french and get great positions, and the worst that can happen is a draw. In the steinitz variation in particular black never seems to have much clue.
I play the french a lot before I switch to the Caro-Kann so I think I can answer some of your questions.
3. Nc3 Bb4, the French Winawer is an excellent line for black and exactly what I hoped for when I played the French. I would definitely play the French all day if white always plays the Winawer.
The reason why it is so good (black equalizes in many lines) is because white will have double pawns (a clear target for black) and usually also lose a tempo with a3 (if white doesn't play a3 the pin is very annoying).
Lets say we follow the main line and get to here, black to move:
Notice white has no good pawn breaks and a main reason why white cannot generate good threats. Black is attacking queenside. Looking kingside white have attacking problems because Black has both the knight and rook there. Anytime white goes Qg4 black's cool reply Kf8! ask what the queen is doing there. g7 is defended by the king and how else can white attack g7? Maybe a knight on h5? It takes forever to get the knight there. h7 is defended by the rook (h7 doesn't matter much anyway) and f7 can simply be defended laterally. And if white is going f4 g4 f5 etc. that is not much of a threat as black's king will not be there.
Remember at the same time black has clear targets in the doubled pawns and moving pieces to the queenside to attack the comprimised structure.
I don't believe that just anybody can become a GM. I'd say about 180 ECF (not sure what that is ELO) ithe limit of most people. Those above that have something else, such as exceptional memory...
Look up the WGM series of french..
wraths, so white's queenside pawns where he has a ton of pieces and a rook able to occupy an open file are "a clear target", while black's kingside pawns are "look, how can you get me, it's defended by the uncastled king" and stuck rook? Numerical advantage is not enough, a piece also has to be able to escape cleanly while on the other hand all kinds of possibilities come into it when the king close to the attack.
I have no doubt that with highly accurate master play this could be a good way for black to hold onto a draw. It is very hard for white to attack. The French is a professional's opening for when he would gladly take a draw, not when he's looking for a win. I hate to agree with FiveofSwords too much, but an average or above average club player should consider the Petrof if he wants a solid opening. Then when white makes a common inaccuracy or tries to push black could easily be left in the lead with clear attacking possibilities. Here it would be difficult for white to play stupid enough that black suddenly gets a clear attacking game.
I don't believe that just anybody can become a GM. I'd say about 180 ECF (not sure what that is ELO) ithe limit of most people. Those above that have something else, such as exceptional memory...
I never understood why the English Chess Federation uses such a bizzare rating system when the rest of the world is using Elo ratings.
Anybody who thinks the white side of the Winawer is not solid is clueless.
Whie is not looking for a draw. The idea of Qd1-Qg4 is always a possibility, and in many lines white can get massive intitiative. Unless you find the Poisoned Pawn Variation "drawish", I don't see how black stands better. He has just given up his best bishop for doubled pawns.
All fine and dandy, but the doubled pawns aren't that easy to exploit.
Instead you recommend the Petroff, which in itself is notriously drawish...
I do not get your reasoning at all.
I don't see what is so solid about 5.dc Nc6 6.Qg4 Ne7. White is burning bridges here and is practically forced into complications.
I don't believe that just anybody can become a GM. I'd say about 180 ECF (not sure what that is ELO) ithe limit of most people. Those above that have something else, such as exceptional memory...
I never understood why the English Chess Federation uses such a bizzare rating system when the rest of the world is using Elo ratings.
Uhhh, hello....'cuz they're....well, let's just say a little different....
....
I don't see what is so solid about 5.dc Nc6 6.Qg4 Ne7. White is burning bridges here and is practically forced into complications.
And black isn't? Come on now...
White can very easily crush black with one tiny mistake.
The winawer is a wonderful battleground for both players ! Even Fischer always thought the winawer was " unsound " and yet he struggled against it in his career . If black is looking to draw though there are better choices because the winawer isnt very drawish at all .
Anybody who thinks the white side of the Winawer is not solid is clueless.
Whie is not looking for a draw. The idea of Qd1-Qg4 is always a possibility, and in many lines white can get massive intitiative. Unless you find the Poisoned Pawn Variation "drawish", I don't see how black stands better. He has just given up his best bishop for doubled pawns.
All fine and dandy, but the doubled pawns aren't that easy to exploit.
Instead you recommend the Petroff, which in itself is notriously drawish...
I do not get your reasoning at all.
Are you crazy? If you're really talking to me I said the exact opposite. I explained in (basic) detail the exact opposite.
Maybe you should try having a lie down or something.
I would like to share my analysis with you if I may. I believe in the below diagram. White's goal for playing Nc3 I believe is to try and hit the e4 and d5 squares. It also helps maintain the tension in the center with the pawns as long as possible before committing the pawn's. I also believe Nc3 add's pressure on the d5 square which at the present moment is not an issue but It is something to be aware of.
The following diagram I have shown above is known as:
ECO C15 The French Defense/Winawer Variation.
I believe the goal of the move Bb4 is to pinn the knight into releasing some of the tension. It helps release the knights influence over the e4 and d5 squares mind you.
In the Below diagram I will show a few of the moves.
This is known as:
ECO C17 The French Defense/Winawer Variation/Advance Variation.
I believe white plays e5 in this position to release the tension of the center pawn's. As you can see Dxe4 could of been an issue because the knight is pinned and can not retake.
In response black than trys to attack the center normally as seen in the French with the c5 pawn thrust.
The most common follow up move in this position which is hugely popular by players now a days is shown in the below Diagram.
The moves from move 5 are the most popular. However, other lines are possible just trying to show the most played ones.
After the pawn thrust of 4...c5 white players try to put the question to the bishop so to speak with the move 5.a3.
Over the years different Masters use to play different moves in response.
They came up with 3 of the most popular response's.
5...Ba5
5...cxd4
5...Bxc3+
5...Ba5 This move was seen just to retreat the bishop out of the way.
Which was highly played for a long while. Until the Discovery of a Novelty!!! I believe in recent years it has fell out of favor with the discovery of a new Novelty move.
6.b4! which goes as below.
This move possess as an issue for the black player because if they simply move their bishop back the c5 pawn will fall. Which will have no compensation for such a loss.
Which only leads to 2 other possible options.
6...Cxd4 and 6...Cxb4.
In both cases the resulting continuations lead into a very Novelty pawn sacrifice idea.
Notice how after the move for example 6...Cxb4 the bishop is no longer pinning the knight for 1 move. The pinn is broke becuase of the pawn interference. Which allows white the chance to jump into Nb5.
White reason for doing so is to exploit the fact that the Dark bishop is no longer on the a3 to f8 diagonal
As you can see the Dark bishop is off sides on the a5 to d8 diagonal. The importance of this is it allows white the chance to unleash a deadly knight jump.
Judging from the above picture I hope you can spot where that knight on b5 is planning to go lol.
Which is why retreating the bishop has fell out of favor more recent years. However, it still played sometimes. Black does end up taking the a3 pawn here with check so he would be up 1 pawn lol. It is a very complex position to say the least in other cases high levels play the cxd4 continuation more often.
However, these are some of the 5...Ba5 lines moving on. Going back to the position.
Another continuation that I mentioned before is the 5...cxd4 pawn variation. Bascially white threats the bishop and black threats the knight lol.
This variation has not seen the light of day in some time lol. I believe its becuase most white players decided they don't care lol if the knight is taken. So they end up taking the bishop with the a pawn opening up their rook file and not worrying about their pawns.
So it ends up like that lol. Yeah white players seem not to care in that continuation. I believe it has fell out of favor for quiet some time. It use to be a continuation for black though so thats why I am mentioning it.
Its like white is getting an active rook and the bishop pair lol. I don't think high level players would cry lol over double pawns in such a situation. They get checkmated lol before they even attack those double pawns lol. Well any way moving on.
The last variation is well the most popular one 5...Bxc3+ and hopefully now you know why they give up the bishop for the knight.
I believe the final position has dynamic compensation from both side's.
White has the bishop pair.
The cost of acquiring the bishop pair came at the expense of ruined pawn structure.
On the Flip side
Black does not have the bishop pair.
The compensation for black's lack of a bishop pair is the ability to target long term weakness which white obtained in its ruin pawn structure.
This is my interpretation of the above position.
Going to your diagram now.
In this situation here. I do not believe black is forced to give up his bishop. If I was playing the black pieces. I will point out I am not a super strong player but if I was playing the black pieces. I would believe in preservation of the Dark bishop here.
For 1 you have weaken your center with the move dxc5. Which means I can always later on play moves like Bxc5. I can even than try to reroute my knights to attack the e5 pawn. How do you plan on defending the e5 pawn here? Seems a little shakey to say the least.
If you play moves like f4 well than Bc5 to b6 just aiming down on the g1 squares seems like a wonderful spot.
I would also have moves like Bc7 targetting e5. Maybe even other idea's of moving the bishop to f1 and rerouting it to g7 to attack the e5 pawn.
Again this is just my option but I do not see why tripling the pawns would help. Why triple the pawns when you can try and make the white center collapse?
I would like to share my analysis with you if I may. I believe in the below diagram. White's goal for playing Nc3 I believe is to try and hit the e4 and d5 squares. It also helps maintain the tension in the center with the pawns as long as possible before committing the pawn's. I also believe Nc3 add's pressure on the d5 square which at the present moment is not an issue but It is something to be aware of.
The following diagram I have shown above is known as:
ECO C15 The French Defense/Winawer Variation.
I believe the goal of the move Bb4 is to pinn the knight into releasing some of the tension. It helps release the knights influence over the e4 and d5 squares mind you.
In the Below diagram I will show a few of the moves.
This is known as:
ECO C17 The French Defense/Winawer Variation/Advance Variation.
I believe white plays e5 in this position to release the tension of the center pawn's. As you can see Dxe4 could of been an issue because the knight is pinned and can not retake.
In response black than trys to attack the center normally as seen in the French with the c5 pawn thrust.
The most common follow up move in this position which is hugely popular by players now a days is shown in the below Diagram.
The moves from move 5 are the most popular. However, other lines are possible just trying to show the most played ones.
After the pawn thrust of 4...c5 white players try to put the question to the bishop so to speak with the move 5.a3.
Over the years different Masters use to play different moves in response.
They came up with 3 of the most popular response's.
5...Ba5
5...cxd4
5...Bxc3+
5...Ba5 This move was seen just to retreat the bishop out of the way.
Which was highly played for a long while. Until the Discovery of a Novelty!!! I believe in recent years it has fell out of favor with the discovery of a new Novelty move.
6.b4! which goes as below.
This move possess as an issue for the black player because if they simply move their bishop back the c5 pawn will fall. Which will have no compensation for such a loss.
Which only leads to 2 other possible options.
6...Cxd4 and 6...Cxb4.
In both cases the resulting continuations lead into a very Novelty pawn sacrifice idea.
Notice how after the move for example 6...Cxb4 the bishop is no longer pinning the knight for 1 move. The pinn is broke becuase of the pawn interference. Which allows white the chance to jump into Nb5.
White reason for doing so is to exploit the fact that the Dark bishop is no longer on the a3 to f8 diagonal
As you can see the Dark bishop is off sides on the a5 to d8 diagonal. The importance of this is it allows white the chance to unleash a deadly knight jump.
Judging from the above picture I hope you can spot where that knight on b5 is planning to go lol.
Which is why retreating the bishop has fell out of favor more recent years. However, it still played sometimes. Black does end up taking the a3 pawn here with check so he would be up 1 pawn lol. It is a very complex position to say the least in other cases high levels play the cxd4 continuation more often.
However, these are some of the 5...Ba5 lines moving on. Going back to the position.
Another continuation that I mentioned before is the 5...cxd4 pawn variation. Bascially white threats the bishop and black threats the knight lol.
This variation has not seen the light of day in some time lol. I believe its becuase most white players decided they don't care lol if the knight is taken. So they end up taking the bishop with the a pawn opening up their rook file and not worrying about their pawns.
So it ends up like that lol. Yeah white players seem not to care in that continuation. I believe it has fell out of favor for quiet some time. It use to be a continuation for black though so thats why I am mentioning it.
Its like white is getting an active rook and the bishop pair lol. I don't think high level players would cry lol over double pawns in such a situation. They get checkmated lol before they even attack those double pawns lol. Well any way moving on.
The last variation is well the most popular one 5...Bxc3+ and hopefully now you know why they give up the bishop for the knight.
I believe the final position has dynamic compensation from both side's.
White has the bishop pair.
The cost of acquiring the bishop pair came at the expense of ruined pawn structure.
On the Flip side
Black does not have the bishop pair.
The compensation for black's lack of a bishop pair is the ability to target long term weakness which white obtained in its ruin pawn structure.
This is my interpretation of the above position.
Going to your diagram now.
In this situation here. I do not believe black is forced to give up his bishop. If I was playing the black pieces. I will point out I am not a super strong player but if I was playing the black pieces. I would believe in preservation of the Dark bishop here.
For 1 you have weaken your center with the move dxc5. Which means I can always later on play moves like Bxc5. I can even than try to reroute my knights to attack the e5 pawn. How do you plan on defending the e5 pawn here? Seems a little shakey to say the least.
If you play moves like f4 well than Bc5 to b6 just aiming down on the g1 squares seems like a wonderful spot.
I would also have moves like Bc7 targetting e5. Maybe even other idea's of moving the bishop to f1 and rerouting it to g7 to attack the e5 pawn.
Again this is just my option but I do not see why tripling the pawns would help. Why triple the pawns when you can try and make the white center collapse?
You are telling me everything I already know. I'm not clueless about the French.
God, that was a long and obnoxious post...
The fact you think 5. dxc5 deserves a dubious symbol makes me question your entire post.
Why do you feel the need to give me a lacture?
