You obviously have good understanding of the positions, but it's puzzling how opponents seem so unprepared. Playing an ambitous move like 6...f6, then never following through with fxe5. Probably 8a3 isn't a great move because of 8...fxe5etc, likely 8bd3 or Re1 better.
Yet another victim of the French Advance!
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Jul 12, 2015
0
#3
8...c4 is playable, but black isn't a tempo up on known lines, has probably played f6 too early. Not sure if immediate b4 is bad but black can prepare it with nb-d2, since not sure 9Nn-d2 pxp 10Nxp is good for black. If f6xe5 isn't good, then it makes it doubful what the point of f6 was. So prefer immediate 8...f6xe5 myself.
6..f6 ok, this game proves nothing, black doesn't know what he is doing.
The advance variation is probably a bit better for white, but still it is clearly weaker than 3. Nc3. Nc3 develops a piece and increases the tension, e5 doesn't develop a piece, and releases the tension for no reason.
Jul 12, 2015
0
#5
6...f6 is fine if followed up correctly. In the 5...Qb6 6a3 c4 line after 7Nb-d2 black's first priorty is dealing with the b4 break with Na5. In the game continuation after 8...c4 9Nb-d2 pxp 10NxN NxN 11pxp white get's the d4 square, so think white has some advantage. Also if black doesn't play 9...f6xe5, and goes back to defending break with 9...Na5 then white can play 10pxp Nf6 11Ne5. It is quite subtle whether f6 helps or not, think not personally but not totally sure.
8a3 a5 9Re1 a4 was a complete overreaction to how dangerous b4 was going to be.
According to Houdini 17Bf4 was devasting 17Nxc5 Qxd1 was nearly equal again, then later b6 was a mistake, Nf6 better.
Jul 12, 2015
0
#6
Najdorfian wrote:
I don't see any advantage for white after 8...c4. Prove me wrong.
Maybe you should stop being so cocky, or if you think you've found some kind of refutation of the French, feel free to contact Viktor Moskalenko and John Watson and tell them their books are junk, or perhaps even publish your own book. I'd love to read it.
I will prove you wrong, and your comment that I advertised 8...c4 9.b4 is bullsh*t. I simply said he played 8...a5 to prevent 9.b4. I didn't say it's the only move that prevents 9.b4. 8...c4 is the other move that would prevent it. In addition, I never used the word "refutation". I claim White has a greater "advantage" than most people on here advertise, constantly preaching "equal", which it's not. Still, and "Advantage" and a "Won Position" are not the same thing by any stretch.
That said, Black is not a tempo up compared to the normal 5.Qb6 6.a3 line.
Below is the "normal" line along with the 7...f6 line that the game could have transposed to had he played your proposed 8...c4.
Jul 12, 2015
0
#7
TwoMove wrote:
6...f6 is fine if followed up correctly. In the 5...Qb6 6a3 c4 line after 7Nb-d2 black's first priorty is dealing with the b4 break with Na5. In the game continuation after 8...c4 9Nb-d2 pxp 10NxN NxN 11pxp white get's the d4 square, so think white has some advantage. Also if black doesn't play 9...f6xe5, and goes back to defending break with 9...Na5 then white can play 10pxp Nf6 11Ne5. It is quite subtle whether f6 helps or not, think not personally but not totally sure.
8a3 a5 9Re1 a4 was a complete overreaction to how dangerous b4 was going to be.
According to Houdini 17Bf4 was devasting 17Nxc5 Qxd1 was nearly equal again, then later b6 was a mistake, Nf6 better.
The funny thing is, I looked at 17.Bf4 during the game and didn't play it (might explain why I'm 2100 and not 2600). Of course, in no way do I claim absolute perfection by White from moves 10 onward, nor do I claim the annotations I put include every playable line by White, but your pointing out the difference at move 17 is interesting and I'll have to look at it. If 17.Bf4 blows Black off the board, it surely doesn't help Nadjorfians argument that White has nothing in the Advance!
Jul 12, 2015
0
#8
R3d_Anonymous wrote:
The Advance Variation is probably the WORST white can play. Seriously, the Advance Variation is like the easiest to play against as Black. The d4 and e5 pawns are so weak, and usually white players that play the Advance variation overextend too much.
The best is the Tarrasch Variation: Korchnoi Gambit (which is not at all unsound).
At least that's what SuperChessGURU says, and I agree with him.
ROFLMAO - You clearly don't know sh*t!
The worst lines for White are the Gambit lines, like the Milner-Barry, Winkelmann-Reimer, Wing, and 3.Be3 lines.
The Korchnoi Gambit is equal, as is 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2?! c5! 4.exd5 (4.Ngf3 Nf6 5.e5 Nfd7 leads to a direct transposition to the Korchnoi Gambit after move 7 and is equal) 4...exd5! 5.Ngf3 (5.Bb5+ Bd7 is also equal) 5...Nf6! 6.Bb5+ Bd7 7.Bxd7+ Nbxd7 8.O-O Be7 9.dxc5 Nxc5 10.Nb3 Nce4 =.
You try telling Sveshnikov that the Advance is the worst line. He will tell you that White has only 2 options if he wants an advantage: 3.Nc3 and 3.e5. The rest is equal (3.Nd2, 3.exd5) or worse (3.Be3).
Jul 12, 2015
0
#9
R3d_Anonymous wrote:
I didn't mention any other gambits. I only said the Korchnoi Gambit, which is very hard to play against as black.
Nc3 isn't bad, but it's not that great either. It holds the center better, but white has problems creating counterplay if black plays correctly. In my opinion (adopted from SuperChessGURU on YouTube - look him up), the Tarrasch is the only good variation against the French Defense, specifically the Korchnoi.
No, you didn't mention other gambits. You said the Advance is the worst line White can play. If that is the case, then clearly the other gambits I mentioned must be better than the Advance according to you (otherwise the Advance wouldn't be the worst).
And your comment that 3.Nc3 isn't any good for White just confirms my statement that you don't know jack about the French.
Jul 12, 2015
0
#10
R3d_Anonymous wrote:
ThrillerFan wrote:
R3d_Anonymous wrote:
I didn't mention any other gambits. I only said the Korchnoi Gambit, which is very hard to play against as black.
Nc3 isn't bad, but it's not that great either. It holds the center better, but white has problems creating counterplay if black plays correctly. In my opinion (adopted from SuperChessGURU on YouTube - look him up), the Tarrasch is the only good variation against the French Defense, specifically the Korchnoi.
No, you didn't mention other gambits. You said the Advance is the worst line White can play. If that is the case, then clearly the other gambits I mentioned must be better than the Advance according to you (otherwise the Advance wouldn't be the worst).
And your comment that 3.Nc3 isn't any good for White just confirms my statement that you don't know jack about the French.
I meant excluding the other Gambits, like out of actual viable lines (Classical, Tarrasch, Advance), the Advance is the worst.
EDIT: you're right about the Classical. The Classical, actually, I'd say probably comes second (to Tarrasch). It's certainly better than the Advance; that's for sure.
You are still wrong about Advance being the worst out of the "Big 5" options for White. Theoretically today, here's how they rank:
3.Nc3 - White's best move and also scores better than the average total score for White (Avg is 54%, this scores over 56% in most databases)
3.e5 - White's second strongest move and not nearly as complicated for White as 3.Nc3.
2.d3/3.Nd2 - The King's Indian Attack gives White a miniscule advantage.
3.Nd2 - The Tarrasch is dead equal, including the Korchnoi Gambit
3.exd5 - Once again, Dead Equal
All other lines are Advantage Black.
Jul 12, 2015
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#11
Against the tarrasch I really like 3..Be7! where after Nf3 you can play Nf6 and get an improved closed tarrasch since he knight will no longer be able to go to e2, and after 4.Bd3 just play 4..c5! And I like black's chances in all lines. There's nothing wrong with the tarrasch, but I strongly prefer 3.Nc3. The good thing about the advance is that it prevents the annoying Fort Knox.
Nd2 is the best variation for white against the French.
Jul 12, 2015
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#13
I don't really understand Bd2, that's why I stopped playing it. I played it before to avoid the winawer but now I love the winawer from both sides.
lolurspammed, Do you mean Nd2?
Jul 14, 2015
0
#16
Well played attack. I enjoyed playing through it.
I remember after our game that you spoke at length about a ...b5 variation in the Tarrasch. You've got a good handle on openings.
R3d_Anonymous hat geschrieben:
I didn't mention any other gambits. I only said the Korchnoi Gambit, which is very hard to play against as black.
Nc3 isn't bad, but it's not that great either. It holds the center better, but white has problems creating counterplay if black plays correctly. In my opinion (adopted from SuperChessGURU on YouTube - look him up), the Tarrasch is the only good variation against the French Defense, specifically the Korchnoi.
Stockfish 6 64 backs me up on this. In the Advance French, it seems to hover around -0.10 to 0.10. Not very good. In the Korchnoi Gambit, it seems to be at around 0.20 or 0.30 at least.
Jul 15, 2015
0
#18
Goodluck playing the Korchnoi gambit after black plays 3..c5 or 3..Be7. Two superior moves to Nf6 imo.
Jul 15, 2015
0
#19
lolurspammed wrote:
Goodluck playing the Korchnoi gambit after black plays 3..c5 or 3..Be7. Two superior moves to Nf6 imo.
You can reach the Korchnoi Gambit after 3...c5:
1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nd2?! c5! 4.Ngf3 (instead of 4.exd5) Nf6 5.e5 Nfd7 6.c3 Nc6 7.Bd3 and you've directly transposed to the Korchnoi Gambit, which is dead equal.
Yesterday just marked the next chapter of complete annihilation of the French Defense via the Advance Variation, a line I have preached time and time again on this board as being very strong for White. Here's just the latest of many. Maybe one day all those that preach mere equality about this line will soon wake up.