What happens at the end of 3 minutes? Forced resignation? And they could simply do their analysis on other boards. In that scenario before clicking the game i would look up your name on my list, check the saved board position, figure out the move and then go input it. Its not like you just forget entirely about the game when its not being viewed.
Players who try too hard.
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That's just the way this site works. If you both often play in this 'superficial' manner, then you should be able, as often as not, get an appreciable advantage. If you don't want a challenge in seeing how to maintain that advantage against considered play, then perhaps you're approaching it in the wrong way. Besides, I'd have thought that analysing a few lines 4-5 moves deep would give you pretty strong moves anyway.
Butterland wrote:
I take chess casually, but that doesn't mean I like to lose. I like to sit down, have a look at a position, take a minute or two to flesh out a few 3-4 move lines on the analyses board, make the move that I think is the strongest of my options, and then get on with my day. I'm a relatively busy person, and if I make 4-5 moves over the course of a day I can't have that taking up more than 15-20 minutes of my free time. I enjoy playing chess with this level of "intensity", and it suits my lifestyle. Now I am not that great of a chess player, but I find that with this approach I easily win most of my matches with players under about 1300. This is fun sometimes, but overal it's not that satisfying to beat-up on players who think a4 is a solid way to start a chess match. My problem is this: when I play 1300-1500 rated players, the better I play the harder they try and the longer they take to move. When we both start out making reasonably quick moves and I screw-up, then the person will continue to play in a fairly "shallow" manner and just keep exploiting the advantage they have earned. This still gives me with my casual approach at least the chance to recoup the loss or aim for a draw. Sometimes I can weasel out of it, sometimes I can't, and that's lots of fun. However, if we are both playing fairly "light" chess and I manage to get a tangible advantage, these types of players will almost always slow WAY down. All of a sudden I'm dealing with an opponent taking 20-30 minutes (or 1-2 days if they are really close to losing) to make his/her moves, and the quality of the moves gets substantially better. This person is at least as good if not better than myself and they are also thinking VERY hard about this position and doing some deep analyses, whereas I'm still shooting from the hip and trying to enjoy the game. I'm getting to the point with this where I just resign the game if I feel the person is "absolutely refusing to lose" and has started spending inordinate amounts of time analyzing our match. Now understand, I am aware that blitz chess exists, and I enjoy it when I have a chance. Also, I'm not talking about the amount of time in between moves, I'm refering to the amount of time and effort that goes into each move. An opponent who will try harder and harder the better you do, whereas you will continue to put roughly the same amount of time & energy into the match regardless of wether you are ahead or behind. It's not hard to predict what will happen if two players reasonably close together in skill play from a certain position, and one player takes 30-120 seconds or so to make a move while the other player starts doing hardcore analyses of all possibilities. Congratulations player who tries too hard, you win. I would absolutely love to see a move clock option for casual players. Say you have 3 days to make a move, but once you open the board you have 3 minutes to analyze & choose. What do you guys think?
are you seriously bitching about people trying to win a chess game? you resign when you feel they are "refusing to lose"? what kind of sore loser are you? are you looking for sympathy here? like... "yeah i know what you mean. i get so pissed when people won't let me win." what are you, 10?
and seriously, "trying too hard?" since when is that in anyway a bad thing in chess? i also don't believe you can try too hard in chess. if a player notices you are doing fairly well, they are going to try to up their game. it's common sense. i am having a very difficult time understanding why you seem to have such a hard time with this concept.
Bizarre article. How can you gauge how hard your opponent is trying? What does that even MEAN? Here's a tip: try hard all the time! Unless you are a hyperactive child, you can enjoy something whilst also taking it seriously.
The whole thing smacks of sour grapes.
this article was a waste of time...
Aug 16, 2008
0
#8
Yeah this is ridiculous. Go play computer chess at easy level, the computer will only think a second or 2.
monday to friday i can only spand a limted time playing chess as well, thats why i play 30 games at a time ( most 7+ day move )... if i havent got the time to fully analyses a hard game i can skip it wait till i have a day off work or somthing........
hhhhmmmm....i guess im the type of player ur talken about
You can't be serious.
Don't worry about how other people are playing (as long as it's legal and consistent with TOS, etc.). Play the way you want to play. Play people of the rating level you like. What's going on in other people's heads or living rooms is none of your business. When you find people whose style suits you, add them as a friend. For all the others, finish the one game and move on.
Aug 16, 2008
0
#12
I think Butterlands point is being missed. He is attributing the slower play to more thought and analysis. However, I have seen a number of games where players are in losing or weaker positions and they completely slow down their play from making a few moves every couple of days to one at the maximum time limits and using the vacation option. It rarely ever happens (I cant really think of any times) when the opponent has a position that is a winning position. The vacation option used to be problem for me because I would forget what line I wanted to play or what the other player had exposed as their tendencies. Now I will replay the moves and reexamine the positions when people come back from vacation but I still lose the plot sometimes so I periodically review the games during vacation breaks to keep a feel for the game.
Butterland's point regarding this is fair and should be considered.
no, it isn't.
there is a time limit. people are allowed to use it.
Truly amazing...
actually, I think of it as more of a compliment. Here we are playing a relatively speedy game and I fork their king and bishop or something. The other player will grind to a halt and start playing one move per day. I usually think.. "Oh, I've got his attention now!" :D
I don't really psychoanalyze the other player past being glad I've got their attention. In fact, if they slow down a heck of a lot like that it makes me feel even better after the win, like I really earned it..
...or then again they could have just been watching TV & moving during the commercials (like I do a lot). I'll bungle a move then put down the game until I can better focus on it..
a lot of times after I win a game like that the other player will then challenge me to another game.. Now we have a rivalry! :D
"Congratulations player who tries too hard, you win. "
I want this on a T-shirt!
Well, with this lengthy diatribe, you could have made 4 moves....
All your bases R belong to us
oginschile wrote:
All your bases R belong to us
Huh?
reddawg wrote:
oginschile wrote:
All your bases R belong to us Huh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qItugh-fFgg
You can't be on the internet and not know this ;)
I guess I fall into the try to hard category.
I take chess casually, but that doesn't mean I like to lose.
I like to sit down, have a look at a position, take a minute or two to flesh out a few 3-4 move lines on the analyses board, make the move that I think is the strongest of my options, and then get on with my day. I'm a relatively busy person, and if I make 4-5 moves over the course of a day I can't have that taking up more than 15-20 minutes of my free time. I enjoy playing chess with this level of "intensity", and it suits my lifestyle.
Now I am not that great of a chess player, but I find that with this approach I easily win most of my matches with players under about 1300. This is fun sometimes, but overal it's not that satisfying to beat-up on players who think a4 is a solid way to start a chess match.
My problem is this: when I play 1300-1500 rated players, the better I play the harder they try and the longer they take to move. When we both start out making reasonably quick moves and I screw-up, then the person will continue to play in a fairly "shallow" manner and just keep exploiting the advantage they have earned. This still gives me with my casual approach at least the chance to recoup the loss or aim for a draw. Sometimes I can weasel out of it, sometimes I can't, and that's lots of fun.
However, if we are both playing fairly "light" chess and I manage to get a tangible advantage, these types of players will almost always slow WAY down. All of a sudden I'm dealing with an opponent taking 20-30 minutes (or 1-2 days if they are really close to losing) to make his/her moves, and the quality of the moves gets substantially better. This person is at least as good if not better than myself and they are also thinking VERY hard about this position and doing some deep analyses, whereas I'm still shooting from the hip and trying to enjoy the game.
I'm getting to the point with this where I just resign the game if I feel the person is "absolutely refusing to lose" and has started spending inordinate amounts of time analyzing our match.
Now understand, I am aware that blitz chess exists, and I enjoy it when I have a chance. Also, I'm not talking about the amount of time in between moves, I'm refering to the amount of time and effort that goes into each move. An opponent who will try harder and harder the better you do, whereas you will continue to put roughly the same amount of time & energy into the match regardless of wether you are ahead or behind.
It's not hard to predict what will happen if two players reasonably close together in skill play from a certain position, and one player takes 30-120 seconds or so to make a move while the other player starts doing hardcore analyses of all possibilities. Congratulations player who tries too hard, you win.
I would absolutely love to see a move clock option for casual players. Say you have 3 days to make a move, but once you open the board you have 3 minutes to analyze & choose.
What do you guys think?