Stockfish, analysis and grey area
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That’s not grey, that’s pretty much on the black side. Bots are no no.
Any use of a bot to analyse a position is a cheat, regardless of time controls. Stockfish playing with 0.1s per move is still far stronger than any human player, so it's not a question of time controls.
The one thing I have been curious about is the idea of trying out bots against the expert level chess.com bots (haven't done it as I suspect that would probably be considered a fair play violation even if it's not against another human player?)
Dec 7, 2023
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#4
Use of an engine against another member is not allowed in any circumstances. You can use an engine against the bots in vs Computer.
Dec 7, 2023
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#5
I like to train by teaming up with Stockfish to beat bots like Francis. (Usually I do 70% of the thinking in those games.)
Thanks a lot everybud with consistent answers, I think this would help provide support of what is possible to do with bot in accordance of fair play policy (or a specific mode in future). Indeed a lot of training and improvement can arise from bot training such as Stockfish teamup vs Francis; or Stockf teamup vs another (teamup) but that's not allowed in ranked as per reading hereup, so unranked.
Still can't have clue about the 65k elo in puzzles, so it's a staggering 6500 problems fast no mistake solved, so that a human achiever is 80% accuracy at best you totatlize minimum 100k solving...
What about human analysis with bot analysis validation, best way to uplevel : that way it's impossible to forbid ; and at home you are in very own and intimate physical nest vs virtual forbidive game management. Bots are more and more replacing us so that one can't play like one played before them at least not without mastering their (non) use, just like in any competitive place.
Truly looking to make my mind: is the use of a.i. in chess always cheat, yes, then how do you count mios players on chess websites i.t. If a.i. is cheat i.t is certainly too... so is everyone in the wrong direction.
For top champs gossip, what about Kramnik and Nieman and all other pro players: is accuracy stats a reliable tool to uncover cheaters(?) So is it right to affirm all pro have cheated on online non cash tournaments someday(?) Are Kramnik and Nieman still cheating in latest prized tournaments without prejudice on seeing stats?
Looking to read everybud comments again soon, have a nice week-end
Dec 8, 2023
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#8
Jiemx wrote:
Truly looking to make my mind: is the use of a.i. in chess always cheat, yes, then how do you count mios players on chess websites i.t. If a.i. is cheat i.t is certainly too... so is everyone in the wrong direction.
For top champs gossip, what about Kramnik and Nieman and all other pro players: is accuracy stats a reliable tool to uncover cheaters(?) So is it right to affirm all pro have cheated on online non cash tournaments someday(?) Are Kramnik and Nieman still cheating in latest prized tournaments without prejudice on seeing stats?
Looking to read everybud comments again soon, have a nice week-end
First, Game Review Accuracy should not be used for cheat determination; it's not designed for that and not what the site uses. It is not a one-to-one engine match algorithm.
https://support.chess.com/article/1135-what-is-accuracy-in-analysis-how-is-it-measured
https://www.chess.com/article/view/online-chess-cheating
That said, please keep the discussion away from cheating in general, as that is not allowed in the forums. If you would like to discuss in depth, join the following club.
https://www.chess.com/club/cheating-forum
I have a quetion. Is it a cheat if I have a real chess board with myself and play the moves of the mobile chess game in it? I mean instead of imagining the next moves in my brain, I play them in my board to be easier at finding the good moves. I mean without using engines or books. Just imagining on a real board
Bots are here to stay. You can't stop your use. Since the business model is (effectively) "keep their eyes on the site, and keep them playing," it's hardly surprising that losing to bots is ENDEMIC. This we all know, intuitively, but might not want to admit it.
The bots represent an "algorithmic program" which mimics the business model of a slot machine in a casino. This we all know, intuitively. But find it hard to admit. Play on, and ENJOY, as best you can.
What's to complain about? The site is "FREE," at least to start. 
Martin_S
First, Game Review Accuracy should not be used for cheat determination;... It is not a one-to-one engine match algorithm.
https://support.chess.com/article/1135-what-is-accuracy-in-analysis-how-is-it-measured>>txs mate good reminder
https://www.chess.com/article/view/online-chess-cheating
... keep the discussion away from cheating, not allowed in the forums... join the following club.https://www.chess.com/club/cheating-forum>>going to have a look txs
>>I could and can feel subject is a sensitive one (nose job); a.i. and cheat is very close, and it's difficult ot talk about 1 without the other, possibly going to move in 'cheating forum'
LikeChess78 a écrit :
Is it a cheat if I have a real chess board with myself and play the moves of the mobile chess game in it? instead of imagining the next moves in my brain, I play them in my board.. finding the good moves...without using engines or books... real board
This is the best analysis board you can get 100% legit in online chess; it is also said brain doesnt process computer information as well as the real thing so; mobile chess is much weaker thant computer chess interface. Also this mix 2 worlds:Square off, boards for techies (first one was a Milton MB 1980)
@zborg agreed IMO this site is among the best you can find for player comfort and safety. However I'm confident dark patterns are as much as on facebook (to keep you the loop in)
bobby_max a écrit :
Are you just trying to find a way to cheat?
My friend is probably better set: he simply uses the analysis board et voilà. I like to use it, evaluate possible moves and check with botanalyser after played the move; before is not allowed. Still for long games, you are at your home so it's private you cannot be under mind control; I'm going to check the cheat board as per below
Dec 9, 2023
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#15
Jiemx wrote:
bobby_max a écrit :
Are you just trying to find a way to cheat?
My friend is probably better set: he simply uses the analysis board et voilà. I like to use it, evaluate possible moves and check with botanalyser after played the move; before is not allowed. Still for long games, you are at your home so it's private you cannot be under mind control; I'm going to check the cheat board as per below
I hope you mean "after the game". Checking with an engine "after the move" is not allowed because the engine allows you to "peek" ahead, and you might use the engine's suggestion on your NEXT move.
I hope you mean "after the game". Checking with an engine "after the move" is not allowed because the engine allows you to "peek" ahead, and you might use the engine's suggestion on your NEXT move.
Agreed, however again, what about privacy, this is giving a lot to an online game; IMO it can be optional in the settings of the game for instance. On the other hand using an engine is richer than classic (physical) board. A respected adult of my childhood used to say : 'do not forbid what you can't control' and here we are we as in all other videogames with botusers (i.e cheaters) trusting all the top ranks. So no, pesonnally I'm even more dissatisfied with online chess (and rules) than with physical boards, where gambling get the hand
property privacy vs mind control that's more important than chesscom rules; first I'm at home then possibly have some virtual interactions on chesscom
Dec 9, 2023
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#17
I'm not sure what you mean by "privacy".
I hope you don't mean "It's my house and my computer, I can use an engine if I want"...
You certainly can... but NOT on chess.com's web-site.
That would get you banned.
Dec 9, 2023
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#18
LikeChess78 wrote:
I have a quetion. Is it a cheat if I have a real chess board with myself and play the moves of the mobile chess game in it? I mean instead of imagining the next moves in my brain, I play them in my board to be easier at finding the good moves. I mean without using engines or books. Just imagining on a real board
If you're analysing by trying out moves on the board, that is not allowed.
Do all platform have same rules about cheating like hereup not allowing physical board analysis
Dec 10, 2023
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#20
Here are chess.com's rules:
https://www.chess.com/legal/fair-play
and https://support.chess.com/article/648-what-do-i-need-to-know-about-fair-play-on-chess-com
You would need to look up other sites to see what their rules are.
But in general, the rules are that in daily chess, static resources such as books, databases that do not show engine evaluations, etc., are permitted (research has always been considered a part of correspondence chess), but engine assistance in any form, advice from a friend, is strictly forbidden. In live chess, assistance of any form is strictly forbidden, just as it would be in an OTB event.
Using an engine to analyse a position can be done after the game is finished. It's a good idea to analyse your games after they are finished so you can learn from your mistakes. However, you generally do best if you do your own human analysis first and only use the engine to see what you missed.
Hello everyone,
I'm in chat with a friend about what is considered as prohibited cheat on chess.com and elsewhere.
IMO bot analysis (like stockfish) is part of chess training to explore the rythm of the game: see how many choices you and opponent can have, how much it hurts to be minus,..; so is the programing aspect of interest to me.
No doubt chessbots are automatic ban. Also I got notified in the past that all tournament games forbid any book or bot analysis help, cash games or not. Does it mean that any bot analysis in the mid of a game is a cheat ranked or not, blitz, rapid or longer? What if both agree to use bot analysis ? Do you explain 65000elo (6500x10) in puzzle chess? Thanks for your opinion and officials, have a nice day.