help with timeout wins and points!!

Hi all -

I don't enjoy getting ratings points from timeout victories unless I have a better position. When my opponent times out, I'm happy for the game to end (because they're not playing in a timely manner), but I don't want the points.

Can you tell me how the "claim timeout win" feature works if I don't have that box checked to have it done automatically? What if I am in a game that is dead even, my opponent times out, and I don't want to claim the win because of the undeserved points I'll get. Is the game still officially over?

Lastly - no, I don't care about my rating, per se, but with junk points it makes it harder to track my progress over time, which I enjoy doing.

Time is as much a factor in chess as position. If you are playing a time limited game you accept that dimension as a normal part of play. Everyone from the lowliest 'D' player to the world champion can win and lose on time in tournaments. In fact a major part of serious tournament play is maintaining time control and stronger players will often spot weaker players time in blitz chess. If you are uncomfortable with the time limitation for whatever reason then play correspondence. And all ratings systems are inflationary, even ELO.

If you want to check your progress use the tactics trainer, time yourself solving problems (the faster you find the correct solution, the better you are), etc.

One of the best ways to measure (and make) progress as recommended in "Think Like a Grandmaster" is to find a master game with lots of annotations, play to the first annotation, cover the page with a sheet of paper and analyse without moving the pieces, limiting you time to 15 or 20 minutes. Then write down your analysis and compare it to the book carefully noting where you went wrong, and repeat for the next block of commentary. If you do this consistently you will definitely see an improvement within a very short time.

Thanks for the comments - I agree with everything that you're saying, but I also feel that time as a factor in a tournament game is different than time factoring into a correspondence game, at least one with a 3 or 5 day per move time control. I have had MANY games where the game is going very smoothly for my opponent, and then they just disappear for 3 days and time out on most or all of their games. It's not a function of their play. Maybe they left town and forgot to set the vacation setting, maybe they got really busy with work and said "screw chess", or any other things - especially if the position is won or straightforward.

In a face to face game, time is always a factor for me (I tend to use more of it) but a "timeout" would mean running out of time while focusing on the position. Timing out in a correspondence game might simply mean running out of time while you're out fishing. So, I think there's a difference.

However, I also realize that everyone else on this site is in the same position, so I have to think that my rating might be inflated to relatively the same degree as other players. It only gets out of whack if I suddenly win 5 or 6 timeout victories and my rating shoots up 80 points. I suppose the benefit is that I receive less points after that for beating a similar opponent to me...so it should all work out.

Still, I'd like a system for addressing it.

i guess what we COULD do it have a button that says "Claim game as Unrated Win" ?

It's very noble not to want to claim the rating points!   I guess it depends on how easy it would be to program the change...

I think that'd be the most straightforward solution - but if no one else is interested, that's fine too!

Your rating depends as much on the time you take to move as the actual position you achieve. That's why it's not uncommon to find players have different ratings at different time controls. One player might find their best form at 5 minute, another might be a hopeless blitz player but very strong at longer games. It's all relative. So don't discount wins on time as fortuitous or the points you get from them as 'garbage'. They are as indicative of your ability as your positional play.

There could be an option to mutually agree to abort a game. Then a timeout can be taken as an agreement to abort.

misterfever, in the long run, free points from a few timeouts won't affect your rating. The further in the past a game is, the less affect it has on your current rating.

Sometimes people time-out as an alternative to resigning. There have been times after a time-out when I have looked at the opponents home page and could see that they were still actively making moves in other games after they had timed-out with me. And then there are many other reasons why a person might time out. Maybe they lost interest in chess. Maybe they couldn't think of a move. I once lost a game on time because a forest fire near my house knocked out the internet in the entire area for a couple of days. I was not so upset about losing points as I was upset because it was a very interesting game. And I don't worry about the points I artificially gain (or lose) from a time-out because the rating system is such that my rating always adjusts towards it's level. But I always take the win on time even though I would rather not win that way, because I believe it maintains the integrity of the game.

Theres nothing like statitstics for obscuring the facts!

good points - and upon a closer look I see that, with the number of games I always have going on, the points will (as one of you even said) level out again pretty quickly. I'f I'm a 1400 level player and get "inflated" to 1600, it won't take many losses to 1500s to bring myself back down to size. Anyway, it's in interesting debate, thanks for the input!

What's missing here is, if you don't have the "automatically claim win on timeout" box checked, then what is the behavior when your opponent times out in a turn-based chess game.

yeah, that's why I like erik's idea of "claim unrated win" or something like that...

You've probably figured out, if you do not claim the win at some time, the game stays alive for your opponent to make a move.

On the last page of "Current Games" you will find games where both players abandoned chess.com. Some are 6 months old. It is conceivable that at some point in the future abandoned games will form the majority of "Current Games".

It's true that claiming points for time out doesn't comfort the same way as when you truly earn them by checkmating but we all can choose the length of time of the games we embark on.  S**** happens to everyone at some point but even THAT is part of the game...

In the end, I'll take the points & with time, the actual test is time & to be able to maintain the ranking at the highest possible.

weird bug! we'll fix that...

Please note that even in Over The Board (OTB) playing whether they timed out in good or bad poistion doesnt change the result a win on timeout is a win. Not the happiest win granted but a win none the less.

 Great idea.

yeah