QGD vs Nimzo

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DrCheckMateBoi

My knowledge for D4 games is very little, as I am an E4 player and in most black games my opponent plays E4 or D4 from the London System. I'm choosing what my repertoire will be against D4, the conclusion I've reached at the moment is to use Nimzo Indian, and when 3. Nf3 I transpose it to Queens Gambit Declined.

I chose to use Nimzo as the main because it is consistent and very dynamic, after Nf6 and e6 it is possible to transpose to: QGD, Nimzo Indian, Bogo Indian, Slav and even Benoni.

Furthermore, I heard that even if you want to play a QGD it is interesting to start with Nf6 and e6, and only after that play d5, because this would avoid some sharp lines.

But my question is what is the advantage of starting with Nf6, it seems to me that the structures of Nimzo and QGD are very similar, however in the database Nimzo's victory rate is better, what are the advantages of each one?

Note: Before anyone tells me I spoke nonsense, I made it clear that I know almost nothing about the D4 theory

DrCheckMateBoi

In this game for example, in the database the masters usually play Be7 instead of Bb4, what is the advantage? Isn't it more advantageous to put Bb4 back to a Nimzo Indian?

chessterd5

my d4 knowledge is shaky at best. in general d4 is very transpositional. I played the KID for a long time. now I play the QGA. the Nimzo can be avoided with c4 and Nf3 in that case, black normally pairs the Nimzo with the Bogo Indian. you will need someone with more knowledge to give you exact move orders. in your diagram, Be7, and Bb4 are both playable and are simply a matter of choice.

DrCheckMateBoi

Real doubt: is QGA good?

I looked at QGA's statistics and it's slightly the same as QGD's, but then why do I never see any GM using QGA?

I never hear anyone talk about QGA, is it a strong defense? "Easy" theory like QGD? Is it respectable?

chessterd5

I think the QGA is fine. there are plenty of GMs that play the QGA. one that comes to mind right now is Viswanath Anand. it is strong, but it is very positional. endgame skills are a must. a lot of lines lead to equality and most of the time the Queens are traded early.

groomsieee

2500 Blitz here, QGD is phenomenal.

chessterd5

the beginning theory is "easy" in the sense that white only has three main moves on move 3: 3.e3, 3.e4, or 3.Nf3. but the middle games are potentially complex.

french

I love QGD as Black. It's extremely solid, and you get an even game if your opponents don't have a precise knowledge of theory - but you don't need any theory!

I go 1. d4 e6 2. c4 d5 3. Nc3 Be7 in order to avoid exchange QGD lines with Bg5 - check out this move order

french
DrCheckMateBoi wrote:

In this game for example, in the database the masters usually play Be7 instead of Bb4, what is the advantage? Isn't it more advantageous to put Bb4 back to a Nimzo Indian?

That wouldn't be a Nimzo, it would be a Ragozin which is a bit shakier although still playable

DrCheckMateBoi

Look at this position, it is a Nimzo Indian, but as I showed in the previous message this position is also almost identical to QGD Ragozin

chessterd5

no, there's some subtle differences that are actually BIG differences in how the game can proceed.

chessterd5

now I know why the masters play Be7 instead of Bb4 in the first diagram it's a Catalan. if white plays g3 and Bg2, as black they can still accept or decline depending on d5xc4.

Laskersnephew

White has some fairly dangerous lines in the QGD where he plays Ne2, not Nf3, and then plays f3, Ng3, and e4 , or just f3 and g4. By waiting for White to play Nf3, Black avoids those lines

MaetsNori
DrCheckMateBoi wrote:

Look at this position, it is a Nimzo Indian, but as I showed in the previous message this position is also almost identical to QGD Ragozin

One doesn't have to play ...d5 in the Nimzo. I play the NID/QID/Bogo and I often choose to place my pawn on d6, instead, for a more hypermodern feel.

Here's an example line:

As someone said earlier, it's all just essentially a matter of choice. Different lines lead to different middlegames, but they're all quite playable. It comes down to preference.

Ethan_Brollier
DrCheckMateBoi wrote:

In this game for example, in the database the masters usually play Be7 instead of Bb4, what is the advantage? Isn't it more advantageous to put Bb4 back to a Nimzo Indian?

IIRC, in this specific line 5. Bf4 scores RIDICULOUSLY well for White, possibly upwards of 65%, and with well over 10,000 games I’d say that pretty much refutes 4… Be7.

Ethan_Brollier

Anyways, my answer would be to play a Nimzo setup and play a Nimzo against Nc3 and a QGD against Nf3. The Nimzo may be ever so slightly better than the QGD, so there’s no harm in trying for it. Who knows. You may discover you don’t like the Nimzo positions oaks switch to the QGD full-time, or vice versa and learn the Benoni, Bogo Indian, or Queen’s Indian.