vacation rule unfair

I think the rules surronding the vacation facility can be unfair to active players. Let me explain.

I lost two games last week on time. I knew I wasn't going to have the time for a few days to play out the moves in all the games I had going (13 or 14 I think) and tried to go 'on vacation'. I wasn't allowed to go 'on vacation' as it was my move in some of the games - the reason I wanted go 'on vacation' anyway. Hence I lost the games.

I know the vacation rule has been discussed many times here re. how people have used it to wind out games they are losing. I presume this rule is an attempt to stop this. But as someone who does not abuse the vacation facility (I have as yet taken no vacation days at all) I feel a bit like I too have fallen victim to those who abuse the rule. If you see what I mean.

I see. I agree completely that we suffer because of abusers. I hope erik sees this.

Maybe I'm missing something...all you have to do is make one move in each open game, then you can go on vacation.  That seems perfectly fair to me.

I agree with the rule, in that you should only be allowed to go on vacation when it is not your move.  The alternative would give you an unfair advantage, in that you could (theoretically) use all your vacation time to study your next move, when your opponent may not have that many vacation days left in order to study his/her moves when it is their turn. 

Being that this is correspondence chess, we still must observe certain time limits.  And I think the current vacation rule is fair.

If you disagree, then I ask for a recommendation for an alternative vacation rule.

Yeah, I"m confused as well. Why didn't you just make the moves in the 13-14 games you were playing and THEN go on vacation?

i used the vacation ability without problem and without abuse. i don't see why anyone else can't.

Maybe I'm missing something...all you have to do is make one move in each open game, then you can go on vacation.  That seems perfectly fair to me.

How long does it take you to make a move mike? Sometimes it takes me seconds, sometimes it takes me days i.e. in a complex or difficult position I will look at it a few times over a few days before I decide on a move. Depends on the stage of the game, quality of the opposition, etc. This is why I play 'correspondance chess' - I can fit it to my scedule.

 I was playing about 14 games at the time, all at different stages, against players ranked from about 1200 to 1900. Ofcourse I could have just made a move in each of the games and then lost some of the games anyway (at least to the better players) because I made rushed and poorly though out moves. Either way I'm penalised!!!

As for an alternative - I'll have to give that some thought

Pardon me if this sounds rude, because I don't intend it to be, but if you know you're not going to have the time to play out that many games, then why start that many games?  Limit yourself to a number of games you can comfortably handle and then there shouldn't be any worries.

I do agree that this (in a little way) penalizes non-abusers, but it was the best/simplest vacation rule we could come up with to stop people from using their vacation time to prolong games that they were already lost in.

we're looking into better ways to handle this in the future. stay tuned!

porterism wrote: if you know you're not going to have the time to play out that many games, then why start that many games?  Limit yourself to a number of games you can comfortably handle and then there shouldn't be any worries.

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I don't always know how long a game will last, not only how many moves but how quickly my opponent will move. I play games of various move limits - 3 to 14 days - to accommodate other players. (My preferred time frame is 5 days per move.) I could accept 3,4 or 5 new challenges over a period of a week or two because the games I am playing are nearing their end & then find that those games take alot longer than I thought they would.

Anyway, I enjoy playing 14 games at once, all at different stages, against players of different levels. It's what I love about this site, my first experiemce of correspondance chess by the way. I have played over 100 games on this site - always in what I believe to be the spirit of the game. Why should I be penalised because some sad people use the vacation rule to delay defeat or upset their opponents??? 

btw porterism I don't think you were rude

Didn't I read on an earlier forum that some sort of 'fair play' ranking was being worked on?

I was writing my last comment while your replies were posted jay & erik - I'll stay tuned.

Why should I be penalised because some sad people use the vacation rule to delay defeat or upset their opponents??? 

 

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 Decent people are always penalized by laws. That's why you can't own a gun, drive 100mph, use drugs, or go on a plane without going through a metal detector. That's the way the world works so why would this be different?

having not used the vacation time myself, i'm not sure how it works, but if it doesnt work this way already then i feel it should, since i can see it could be a significant problem otherwise if you have lots of games going.  It should (and may already) be possible to go on vacation when it is your move to make in some games, but you still have to make your move in those games before your normal time limit.  Once you have made your moves in those games then they should join your other games as being 'on vacation'.  Otherwise it could be quite difficult to get all the games to be your opponent's move at the same time, if one or more are firing moves right back at you.  Then you would almost certainly blunder as you rush to get all your moves made before one person makes another move. 

 

like i said though, maybe it already works this way, just a thought that occured to me... 

Perhaps I'm just slow on the uptake, but I've been asking in various forums (fora?) for the past few weeks and have yet to receive a satisfactory explanation as to why we need modified vacation rules in the first place.

 

If I'm clearly winning a game and my opponent goes on vacation for a month, who cares? I'll play other games, and win this one when said opponent runs out of vacation time.

 

This is not a rhetorical question. I really would like for someone to explain why "vacation abuse" matters. 

Good idea sstteevveenn I would have been happy with that but at the moment it can't be your move in any game.

The more I think about this the more I'm with HowDoesTheHorseMove; why have vacation time at all and then complain that people use it - whatever you think their motives are? Is that not the same as signing up to a correspondance chess game of say 5 moves per day time frame and then complaining that your opponent takes 4 days to move? I think this (the complaining) would be considered poor sportmanship here?

Just one more thought. I know I will be busy again in a few days (no I'm not Santa Claus) and am deliberately not taking on new games now - even though I will only be away for a few days. Had this rule not been there I would have started a few more games and then simply explained to my opponents I was going on vacation for a few days and I would continue soon.

I had the same problem as Liammor - something came up and I didn't have time to make 15 moves before I left my computer and thus the vacation option was of no use at all to me. 

I suppose I could choose to play games with less demanding time frames, but I already stick to 3-5 days/move games. A game that takes 50 moves to complete with moves occuring every 7-14 days could take several months to finish and I'm not ready for that sort of commitment (no hard feelings, erik?) -- so that option is rather unappealing.

I could also play fewer games at a time, but then I do feel cheated when I log in and there are no moves waiting for me.... so I start another game... and another game... and then I make myself a coffee and start two more...

I'd be much more content going back to the old vacation system, and suffer 'vacation abuse' the traditional way. There's no pride to be found in winning on time, but I could take pride in scareing a fellow chess.com member into a month long vacay.

HowDoesTheHorseMove wrote:

Perhaps I'm just slow on the uptake, but I've been asking in various forums (fora?) for the past few weeks and have yet to receive a satisfactory explanation as to why we need modified vacation rules in the first place.

 

If I'm clearly winning a game and my opponent goes on vacation for a month, who cares? I'll play other games, and win this one when said opponent runs out of vacation time.

 

This is not a rhetorical question. I really would like for someone to explain why "vacation abuse" matters. 

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I agree with this idea for a couple reasons. This is corrospondence chess and in essence this is about the convenience of people who love chess but have buisy lives. This site has done a good job to to accomodate this, excluding this vacation rule. Regardless, at the end of the day when those cheepos' vacation days run out because their feelings are hurt that they got their buts kicked... the person on top remains the victor. Good players who do not abuse this vacation option do not deserve to be penalised for this reason... I do see merrit in changing the rule to sstteevveennss suggestion in that both parties needs would be met, i am just not sure if there would be programming complications with that as there would be alot more processing involved.

liammor wrote:How long does it take you to make a move mike? Sometimes it takes me seconds, sometimes it takes me days i.e. in a complex or difficult position I will look at it a few times over a few days before I decide on a move. Depends on the stage of the game, quality of the opposition, etc. This is why I play 'correspondance chess'

This is the difference between our playing styles, and the beauty of chess sites such as these.  I play and make my moves in under 30 seconds each, with very very rare exception.  I play based on instinct and go with my initial gut feeling.  I simply don't have the time in my life right now to study any positions/moves.  That makes it much easier for me to abide by these vacation rules without suffering any negative effects.  I can log in and make 15 moves in under 10 minutes, given a fast enough internet connection.  I'm always playing at least 20 games at a time on Gameknot.com, where I've completed over 1400 games in the last 3 years.  Gameknot's vacation rules are pretty much a mirror of Chess.com's vacation rules.  On Gameknot I used the vacation option 3 times in 3 years, and I've only lost on time in 5 games when I was mobilized to Afghanistan and my vacation time ran out.  I play for fun and don't really pay attention to my rating, after all its just a game.

Having said all that...I like sstteevveenn's recommendation for vacation rules and think that it is a fair and acceptable alternative to the current system.