What do we owe Pros?

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chessroboto
RobKing wrote:
Honestly, parents don't even know chess as an option. If it is an option, it is usually not publicized well and not really up to par. There is no real instruction or nice sets or clocks. It's usually a few crummy boards, possibly missing pieces, and a teacher who isn't good enough to instruct kids on basic strategies. It's a shame really.

One last post for the day.

There are schools throughout the nation that are have embraced the first Move program into the 2nd and 3rd grade curriculum, but it is not designed for competitive training.

USCF has organized the competitive tournaments and provided rich online resources for affiliated chess clubs (some may be decrepit as you've witnessed), sanctioned chess camps and tournaments, but USCF will not provide the chess education.

It seems that it is up to every school to manage their own chess clubs. Chess instructors, sets, clocks, heat and electricity cost money, and it would be the first to be slashed to pay teachers in today's economy as Musikamole already mentioned. This will make it impossible to make school-funded chess clubs to be at par even with the school's music band or choir.

The only viable way that I can think of with what I know now is for the First Move program to be the organized hub of chess resource in every school that they operate in. And all they need to do is to disseminate pamphlets and information provided by USCF that will lead interested parents and students to the USCF website. From there parents can find the nearest clubs and summer camps. The clubs can provide the information for local tournaments and USCF will be the source for nationwide events.

Conflagration_Planet
chessroboto wrote:
Musikamole wrote:

Can an argument be made for academic performance gains when children participate in scholastic chess? Is there a correlation between chess and test scores in math and language arts?


Here is a list compiled by Bill Wall about studies correlating chess and improvements in cognitive skills and academics. Note that some of the findings/claims sounded bogus.

http://www.mathandchess.com/articles/article/1302222/60347.htm

If chess were that good, why wouldn't it be taught alongside Math? Because it is a game just like Monopoly, Life, Scrabble, Boggle, etc. The Board of Education probably decided to make any game an extra-curricular activity, alongside other activities such as martial arts and golf.

Where is scholastic chess now? A quick research into uschess.org and wikipedia.org shows that scholastic chess tournaments have reached the same popularity as choir and band competitions. In the last supernational tournament that is held every three years, 5,300 players participated.

http://main.uschess.org/content/blogsection/27/131/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scholastic_chess_in_the_United_States

Here is a list of scholastic scholarships through chess:

http://main.uschess.org/content/view/8164/131/

What else will it take to propel scholastic chess to the same level as football and basketball? It probably will never happen as chess is not the same type of spectator sport..

aansel wrote:
Major sponsorship for chess has hardly worked int he long run --getting something suitable for ESPN akin to Poker (fast blitz chess) may be the only chance at commercial success but the model of the majority contributing to support the pros is a bad business model.

I realize the truth in that statement, so I take back my earlier suggestion for sponsors to invest into scholastic programs. Why? Because chess, like skiing and martial arts, is such an individualistic sport/game. By the time the children become pro chess players, they will go on their own ways, not needing to be part of any team to win championships like ball sports. The only other time that chess teams will be needed will be for the olympiad.

I realize that the best way to boost the popularity of chess is to have major tournaments that are as lucrative as golf, the closest spectator sport that chess can strive to become.

Imagine when chess tournaments offer hundreds of thousands of dollars in earnings for top placers in several tournaments throughout the year, as well as sponsorships by companies that make casual wear, custom suits, luxury wrist watches to energy drinks for starters. Within a decade the USCF could be overwhelmed with ultra competitive chess players who are hungry to win the top prizes and all the fringe benefits. Finally, there would be a dedicated "chess channel" with all the full coverage, lessons, announcements, tips, interviews, highlights and specials that one could find in the golf channel.

Bobby Fischer could have been the Tiger Woods of chess as early as 1972, and chess could have become bigger than golf today.


I don't know if some of the claims are bogus or not, but chess wouldn't be just like any other game. There may be games just as good as chess, but monopoly and a lot of other games don't require the concentration, and pattern recognition of chess. Not all games are the same.

chessroboto

So are we abandoning the discussions here to talk in another thread about "pay per view" chess tournaments?

emmett4077
davegski wrote:
emmett4077 wrote:

Wrong. "Archaic" did NOT make the right point. Just because something happened does not make everyone have the right to report it.

 

Where would you guys/girls get such an idea? If Bob and Joe play chess in my backyard, no one has the right to their game! Think about when Kasparov trained Carlson. I'm sure that, during training, Carlson and Kasparov played a game. No one has the right to publish that game to the public other than Carlson or Kasparov.


Actually, you do have that right (Thank God!). So long as Carlsen and Kasparov play outside the privacy of their home, anyone can spy on the game and report all the moves. So if it takes place in a tournament hall, its news, anyone can (and ought to) have access to it. That's how it is! I'm able to report on anything that happens in the world around me. This is why the paparazzi can get away with so much, but it's also the reason we have a free press.


Care to tell me where you got that crazy idea? What about all the personal lawsuits against the paparazzi? Just because you see something doesn't mean you can run out and tell the world about it. Most of the time, yes, you can. But it's not a guaranteed right. I'm not quite sure where you got that idea. 

"Reporters obviously are subject to other laws that apply to individuals in a given country, such as laws governing privacy.  A journalist who wants access to information cannot enter private property, take documents without permission, or wiretap a telephone and expect to face no legal consequences."

http://www.america.gov/st/democracyhr-english/2008/April/20080416222032eaifas0.7425435.html (Btw, this isn't international law, so it really just depends in what country the game is played as to what laws apply.)

 

While this looks like it helps your arguement and hurts mine, this is not exactly true. Remember that all of these chess games that you say you have the "right" to report are in fact usually not organized by a government, and wherever they are hosted is not always public property. So it doesn't really matter if two GMs play a game at an international competition, you don't have the right to report the moves IF the organizers say you can't before they let you in. 

 

Now, obviously the organizers don't tell you not to report moves before they let you in. But they have the "right" to, and as such my point stands. You don't have the right to free games on somebody else's property, even if it's not a house or a backyard.

nimzo5
Gonnosuke wrote:

I'm glad you mention that because it's a misconception that I think a lot of us intuitively feel must be true when we first hear about the model.  I felt the same way but the research says otherwise. 

There are hundreds of small, relatively unknown artists who are using this model successfully and it's this reason why I think it would work for pro chess players.  You can read more about it at Techdirt.com but the gist is that is only takes a small group of really loyal fans -- a couple of thousand people is enough -- to make a living off of the business model (not fabulously wealthy but 5 figure/lower 6 figures incomes are quite common.

If you have a connection with fans and they feel you add value to their lives, they are willing to support you.  It works for blogs, indie filmmakers and independent music artists. Essentially, it's the Renaissance patron model but instead of being funded by one wealthy patron, you're funded by many patrons some of whom pay much more than others.  The fact that chess fans tend to be more affluent than average is one of the reasons why I think this could really work for chess pros.  Of course, one of the big problems is that chess players often have a charisma problem and might find the connecting with fans part very hard to do! 

In a larger story about the music industry and Reznor in particular, this article  mentions several smaller artists who use the same concept very successfully.  Just scroll down a bit and you can read about a half dozen people who are largely unknown artists but nevertheless are still earning a living through the generosity of small groups of die-hard fans.

On a final note, I want to quote a part of that article that speaks directly to the 3 issues discussed in the chess.com TV program.  Concerning the examples where the CwF+RtB model has been very successful:

"They're not about getting a fee on every transaction or every listen or every stream. They're not about licensing. They're not about DRM or lawsuits or copyright. They're about better connecting with the fans and then offering them a real, scarce, unique reason to buy -- such that in the end, everyone is happy."


 The problem is there are thousands and thousands of artists and only a few hundered will succeed at this model. As you correctly point out, it is about connecting with their fans. Getting that connection though, is in the "platform" that allows them to generate profits.

Example - through working with Chess.com IM Pruess now has a platform- thousands of chess players who read his posts, watch his broadcasts etc. This model will work for him because he has enough recognition for the small tail to take effect.

Meanwhile, IM X who has no internet presence and maybe only regional exposure will struggle to market him/herself. The title alone isn't enough. Ultimately, for these chess pro's they will find they are spending far more time trying to cultivate a fan base then actually playing chess. This is why most chess pro's fail to properly monetize their skills.