Why is the openings database available in daily chess?

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xAptive

About half my games I end up playing against the opening database.  My opponent clearly just chooses whatever move looks worse for me from the db.  In essence, I'm playing against masters and GMs.  I'm nowhere near that level.  So my only option is to make moves that take us out of the database, which is to say, moves that no master or GM considered to be worthwhile.  This is a miserable way to play chess, and I feel at a disadvantage either way.

Sure, I could do the same thing and pick whichever move looks worse for them, but then we are just playing through someone else's game, that neither of us actually know or understand.  What's the point of that?

I get that you can't stop people from using a database, but why make it so convenient?

Martin_Stahl
xAptive wrote:

About half my games I end up playing against the opening database.  My opponent clearly just chooses whatever move looks worse for me from the db.  In essence, I'm playing against masters and GMs.  I'm nowhere near that level.  So my only option is to make moves that take us out of the database, which is to say, moves that no master or GM considered to be worthwhile.  This is a miserable way to play chess, and I feel at a disadvantage either way.

Sure, I could do the same thing and pick whichever move looks worse for them, but then we are just playing through someone else's game, that neither of us actually know or understand.  What's the point of that?

I get that you can't stop people from using a database, but why make it so convenient?

 

 

 

Daily Chess is chess.com's version of Correspondence chess and opening resources have always been allowed in that type of chess. The only things not allowed are engines, tablebases, or directly asking another player what to move. 

xAptive

I don't think you read my post.  I didn't say it wasn't allowed.  I didn't even say it shouldn't be allowed.  I was wondering why chess.com integrates it in to the board so that it's so easy to use.  It's actively encouraged.  Why is that the case if all the other stuff (engines, etc.) is disallowed?

The_Mente

My friend, I believe you should look at this matter with a different perspective. Opening Theory in essence is the heuristics of the best way to play following the masters and Grand Masters games. Sadly, foreseeing thousands of bad outcomes after a bad opening, some of them 20 moves ahead is hard. Much easier is to memorize the good openings and jumpstart your winning odds against one who doesn't. But then, chess would become boring for those who did not memorize or began doing so later having a small repertoire. I believe the open catalogue helps to even the playing field, in addition to be a great way to learn the good openings. Try differently and see for yourself the negative consequences, also valid as a learning tool but less effective like I mentioned before. Thoughts?

dfgh123
xAptive wrote:

 So my only option is to make moves that take us out of the database, which is to say, moves that no master or GM considered to be worthwhile. 

And then your opponent switches to the blitz database.

xAptive
The_Mente wrote:

I believe the open catalogue helps to even the playing field, in addition to be a great way to learn the good openings. Try differently and see for yourself the negative consequences, also valid as a learning tool but less effective like I mentioned before. Thoughts?

It only levels the playing field if I too pick my moves based on the opening database.  Otherwise it's stacking the deck against me.  And neither of us are playing chess at that point.

xAptive
dfgh123 wrote:
xAptive wrote:

 So my only option is to make moves that take us out of the database, which is to say, moves that no master or GM considered to be worthwhile. 

And then your opponent switches to the blitz database.

I'm not sure what that is, but it doesn't seem to be built in to daily chess.  Like I said, I know chess.com can't stop people from using other resources, but it doesn't need to be so accessible.

xAptive

Oh I see.  I didn't realize the openings database was built in to all modes.

Well anyway, soon I'll hopefully be playing over-the-board and not have to worry about it.  Are there online platforms that don't have that option?

binomine
xAptive wrote:

Oh I see.  I didn't realize the openings database was built in to all modes.

They are not. 

Live chess is trying to mimic OTB chess, and nothing except your head is allowed. Some people cheat, but that is a problem with all forms of chess.

Daily chess is trying to mimic correspondence chess, and in general, things like opening databases and master games were always allowed in correspondence chess. 

If you want to play OTB chess, just stick with live chess. 

dfgh123

If I was you I would play live chess with the longest time control you can stomach because databases are not allowed.

Unikat-Automat

I never use the database. This is the 1st step to cheating. 

mpaetz

     USE the database: don't just choose whatever line gives the highest winning %, (sometimes that is misleading, as a line that was successful for some time met a refutation and nearly dropped out of use) but look at all the lines, or as many as seem appealing, and see what you think best--something you can understand, and that lead to position you would be happy to play. Having time to analyze the position can help you master that opening variation.

Unikat-Automat

Ok, what if you learn to use the database? This is a devil,s help. Cos you can reach the 15th move....and what next? - the database is gone...what now? Who must to be the 16th move??...then use some other resources...and finally your account will be closed for cheating. 

It,s great to learn the openings,  but not in case you  use and play ( for example ) 15-16 databases moves in a real game.. 

Believe me, many members becames in cheaters cos that reason

Martin_Stahl
xAptive wrote:

I don't think you read my post.  I didn't say it wasn't allowed.  I didn't even say it shouldn't be allowed.  I was wondering why chess.com integrates it in to the board so that it's so easy to use.  It's actively encouraged.  Why is that the case if all the other stuff (engines, etc.) is disallowed?

 

And my statement is that since it's correspondence, it's always going to be allowed.

 

If you don't like it, join one of the clubs that promise not to use anything in Daily games.

Unikat-Automat
Martin_Stahl wrote:
xAptive wrote:

I don't think you read my post.  I didn't say it wasn't allowed.  I didn't even say it shouldn't be allowed.  I was wondering why chess.com integrates it in to the board so that it's so easy to use.  It's actively encouraged.  Why is that the case if all the other stuff (engines, etc.) is disallowed?

 

And my statement is that since it's correspondence, it's always going to be allowed.

 

If you don't like it, join one of the clubs that promise not to use anything in Daily games.

There is correspondence games finished in 5 min. Fastest than blitz. Don,t ecxused the cheating with the " correspondence " chess, pls

dfgh123
Unikat-Automat wrote:
 

There is correspondence games finished in 5 min. Fastest than blitz. Don,t ecxused the cheating with the " correspondence " chess, pls

Nobody follows your fantasy rules for daily chess.

Unikat-Automat

Lol

User_Chess_9999

Daily chess means correspondance chess. Correspondance chess allows opening books. And as such chess.com also allows opening trees. In normal games Bullet/Blitz/Rapid it is not allowed to use an opening book.

Martin_Stahl
Unikat-Automat wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
xAptive wrote:

I don't think you read my post.  I didn't say it wasn't allowed.  I didn't even say it shouldn't be allowed.  I was wondering why chess.com integrates it in to the board so that it's so easy to use.  It's actively encouraged.  Why is that the case if all the other stuff (engines, etc.) is disallowed?

 

And my statement is that since it's correspondence, it's always going to be allowed.

 

If you don't like it, join one of the clubs that promise not to use anything in Daily games.

There is correspondence games finished in 5 min. Fastest than blitz. Don,t ecxused the cheating with the " correspondence " chess, pls

 

How fast players decide to play Daily has no bearing on the rules.

nklristic

Daily chess is nice but it is not for everyone. If you do not want opening books, just stick to longer rapid games. Daily can be used as a tool to learn some openings as well. By the way, you will not be inside a book for too long except in highly played lines. Most of the time, you will follow the book for instance 10 moves  (as I've said, I exclude some Najdorf lines or something else that has been played a lot) and then there will be a few games left and you will safely play something completely legit and be on your own, so you will not play out the entire game.

So, if you find daily helpful for your improvement, play it the way it is. If not, play longer rapid games, those are the best for improvement anyway, and there it is not allowed to use opening database.

Ultimately, daily is just a different option to play chess. The important thing is that you always have the option of playing a classical style of game.