Women vs Men chess superiority

Sort:
MagnusWoody
After all these years I still cannot figure out why they separated chess competition by gender. It makes zero sense. No one gender is smarter than the other. It’s not like this is a weight lifting contest in which men will have the obvious advantage. Imagine how much more exciting chess would be if the field was stronger and not to mentioned the Inevitable man vs woman thing.
dopelozer

i think it's a historic thing, since when fide was founded, men were considered superior to women, and nobody ever bothered to amend this

IcyAvaleigh
why would you fix something that's not broken?
Martin_Stahl
jazzTUNE wrote:
After all these years I still cannot figure out why they separated chess competition by gender. It makes zero sense. No one gender is smarter than the other. It’s not like this is a weight lifting contest in which men will have the obvious advantage. Imagine how much more exciting chess would be if the field was stronger and not to mentioned the Inevitable man vs woman thing.

 

It's about representation and FIDE wanted more women in chess. It's as simple as that. It's very similar to offering automatic titles in some events, that mostly benefits areas with low chess activity.

nTzT

Both genders are equally smart, but men have 2 advantages: Numbers and cognitive variability. More men play chess and men have a greater chance at producing high and low level play.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variability_hypothesis


In any case, I am fine with the current system as it promotes Chess.

TheHarbingerOfDoom
I know I shouldn’t point this out as it may well summon the woke brigade. But men and women are different. They have a different physiological and chemical makeup. This also leads to differences in outlook and the way they express things such as emotion etc.

I am not saying that one sex is superior to the other, just that they are different. It makes sense that they would have different categories. And as pointed out, as more men are encouraged to play chess, especially from an early age, this does generally give them the advantage.
Derek-C-Goodwin

in the online arena my wife plays as a dude to avoid being pestered.

sndeww
George-Bean wrote:

in the online arena my wife plays as a dude to avoid being pestered.

your wife is very smart

nTzT
George-Bean wrote:

in the online arena my wife plays as a dude to avoid being pestered.

Sadly, that's wise... from what I have observed lol

dc25671423ce100be8aa24c1f9d5a4c2.png
c4039e3eec06ab8d171144691b7f0957.png

brianchesscake

In most open amateur tournaments, the participants are not segregated by gender.

But in "professional" events, generally males and females will have separate sections, and this is because at the top levels there is a difference in skill level / ability - also, allowing women to play only other women gives them a higher chance of winning prizes (as well as titles).

Yurinclez2

There are women who are stronger than me and we go to different restrooms. In most of cases, segregation by gender is what should be done

Yurinclez2

Why don't male players demand for men only titles and tournaments? 

jetoba
Yurinclez2 wrote:

Why don't male players demand for men only titles and tournaments? 

Susan Polgar has organized tournaments with boys and girls having their own (different) sections.  Some countries may have done the same for adults.

blueemu
jazzTUNE wrote:
After all these years I still cannot figure out why they separated chess competition by gender. It makes zero sense. No one gender is smarter than the other. It’s not like this is a weight lifting contest in which men will have the obvious advantage. Imagine how much more exciting chess would be if the field was stronger and not to mentioned the Inevitable man vs woman thing.

Why do they separate Baseball into Major and Minor Leagues?

Is there something genetic about Major Leaguers that prevents anyone else from competing with them?

... or is it to create a breeding ground for talent?

mpaetz

     The separate status of men and women in chess goes back a long way. In the days of Laboudonnais and Morphy women were generally regarded as the "weaker sex", in need of guidance and protection. All the little bits of traditional chivalry that have lasted into recent times--gentlemen pulling out chairs or opening doors, "ladies first", and so on were de rigueur then, and much more besides. Public chess usually took place in taverns, men's clubs, coffee houses and other places "proper ladies" didn't go.

     Later in the 19th century Steinitz became recognized as world champion, more (and more lucrative) tournaments appeared, and some ladies started their own clubs and tournaments. Still, not playing in top competitions kept the top women players a step or two behind the men.

     Starting in 1920 the Hastings (England) Chess Congress featured a strong international field, and there were also "weaker" sections, junior and women's tournaments. One of the regular women's players was Vera Menchik, the strongest female player in England. 

     Fide was formed in 1924, and created Chess Olympiads. Concurrent with the 1927 Olympiad they held a Women's World Championship. Menchik won, and won every championship until her death (1944 in a German air raid). Her success led to her invitation to the top section at Hastings in 1929 (and every year through 1936) as well as other international tournaments where she competed with all the top players of  the 1930s, beating such figures as Samisch, Colle, Sultan Khan, Reshevsky and Euwe.

     After World War II FIDE took control of the world championship competition and became the recognized governing body of worldwide chess. They held international women's tournaments and continued to have a women's world championship. They also came up with criteria for earning the titles of IM and GM and WIM in 1950. The WGM title was added in 1976.

     Still, women rarely had a chance to play in strong tournaments. There were relatively few GMs in the 1950s, so tournaments strong enough to earn GM norms were fewer. Nona Gaprindashvili, Women's World Champion 1962-1978, was the first woman to earn the "regular" GM title in 1978, but need special consideration from FIDE as she could only get into qualifying tournaments totaling 23 games rather than the required 24. Even after becoming a GM, tournament invitations were few and far between for her so she continued to play primarily in women's events.

     Some women played in some open events in the years that followed, but many national chess federations had policies keeping the genders separate. The Polgar sisters battled the Hungarian chess bureaucracy in the later 1980s and won international titles, refusing to play women-only tournaments or accept women's titles. FIDE reproved the Hungarians and the regular title route has been open to females since then.

     A number of women have become GMs over the last few decades, but the long history of separation has kept women's numbers down. People don't think of girls as potential chess stars, so fewer are encouraged to try to develop their talents. And too many men regard chess as a male domain, leaving women feeling resented in an unpleasant environment. I notice that the younger generations in similar forums here think that all players are welcome everywhere in chess and such problems are in the past. 

     However, there are many places around the world where this is not the case. Nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran forbid the mingling of the sexes in most activities--mixed gender chess tournaments are strictly illegal. And in more-traditional parts of many countries in Africa and Asia women are still considered as inferior--pretty much the "property" of their nearest male relative. FIDE tries to promote the growth of chess everywhere, and in such places separate men's and women's tournaments and titles are still a necessity. 

    It will  be some time before these difficulties can be overcome. Probably as FIDE periodically adjusts its title requirements, women's title requirements can be changed to be the same as men's.

NikkiLikeChikki

Can we *please* just ban this topic? There are dozens of threads on it already, and they all devolve into the same sh*t. @Martin_Stahl Please, I'm begging you.

Sekada

I don't understand it, but don't hate it either. On average men are better at chess than girls, so I'm fine with the woman titles and events

sarthakroy1512
B1ZMARK wrote:
George-Bean wrote:

in the online arena my wife plays as a dude to avoid being pestered.

your wife is very smart

yes

IsraeliGal

Chess isn't segregated by Gender. never has been from what I know.

Women just aren't as good at chess, until they prove it. Women like Judit Polgar, Hou Yifan and more have played against men, they just arent very successful because they aren't as competitive. 

The strongest female players Hou Yifan, Judit Polgar, have had some success against men but they ultimately weren't competitive against any remotely competitive man.

So your questions wrong from the get go. Women can verse men, they just choose not to. 

jetoba
Soniasthetics wrote:

Chess isn't segregated by Gender. never has been from what I know.

Women just aren't as good at chess, until they prove it. Women like Judit Polgar, Hou Yifan and more have played against men, they just arent very successful because they aren't as competitive. 

The strongest female players Hou Yifan, Judit Polgar, have had some success against men but they ultimately weren't competitive against any remotely competitive man.

So your questions wrong from the get go. Women can verse men, they just choose not to. 

Judit has done well as first board of Hungary's Olympiad team playing against the men on the opponent's first board.

With the same amount of experience it seems like the average female player is on par with the average male player (a lot of kids' tournaments are split 50%/50% for players under 8 years old but in this area it is more like 90%/10% for 13-year-olds and more like 99%/1% for 17-year-olds and getting more skewed as time goes on).

The very low numbers of female players with a lot of experience makes the demographics at that level of experience overwhelmingly male at all skill levels with that much experience (the rating distribution for males with 20 years of experience seems similar to the rating distribution for females with 20 years of experience but where you might have 10 very strong male players the same type of rating distribution would imply one fractional strong female player and that fraction has a decent chance of rounding down to zero.