Can the fifty-move law be suspended?

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corph

There are a few documented endgame positions where the winning sequence takes longer than 50 moves without a pawn move or piece capture.  I'm wondering if there is any provision in the standard rules of chess competition to suspend the law in these circumstances.

This is of particular importance to me because I just stumbled into the Mother of All Endgames (N+N vs. P):

rooperi

According to the tablebase, it's a win in 36, well within the 50

NimzoRoy

FIDE abolished ALL exceptions to the 50 move rule back in the 1992. As the old perfessor Casey Stengel used to say "you can look it up." 

corph

Apparently, against a rook pawn the technique involves sacrificing a knight (!).  The Oxford Companion to Chess provides this nifty mating problem to cap it off:

corph
NimzoRoy wrote:

FIDE abolished ALL exceptions to the 50 move rule back in the 1992. As the old perfessor Casey Stengel used to say "you can look it up." 

Yeah well my reference from 1984 stated that the law could be suspsended under particular circumstances and no I didn't think to google whether it had changed.

BlueKnightShade
rooperi wrote:

According to the tablebase, it's a win in 36, well within the 50

Yes, if black has the move. I just checked the nalimov tablebase.

If white has the move it takes 86 moves!!! But white needs to move the pawn before 50 moves has been done.

No doubt that it would be very difficult to play this end game if you happen to run into such a position.

royalbishop

When i learned to play Chess it was the 21 move rule.

50 moves is like a life time. Even 21 is too much.

corph

Even with B+N 21 moves may be pretty difficult, let alone this monster engame.  I'm not sure how I can keep the white king from running around the board with only one mobile knight.  Anyhoo, since this is an ongoing game I'll refrain from solliciting specific advice.  I just wanted to highlight it because it's so rare.  See the game here: http://www.chess.com/echess/game?id=62879776

Kingpatzer

basically, the number of exceptions are so low that FIDE has taken the stance that if you fall into one of those exceptions you screwed up earlier and can live with a draw.

royalbishop

That game is a draw.

In these type situations the option for the knight is to block the movements of the pawn or capture it.  This is no secret because if that gets to its 8th rank it becomes a Queen. Queen vs Knight end game. The Knight wins if the other side has some Tequila!!!! Even that may not be enough. lol.

royalbishop

Hey the first thing we learned take a draw if your losing. That is a win. If your winning look out for your opponent looking for a draw.

A draw situation online can be fun to play out. Providing both sides know when it is a draw and the game ends in a timely manner.

eddysallin

50 move rule online...do u have to claim draw or is it automatic?

Kens_Mom
eddysallin wrote:

50 move rule online...do u have to claim draw or is it automatic?

You have to claim it.

royalbishop

I did not know this.

The only reason why i have a couple draws because i am not aware of the draw rule here. Where can i find it?

New Years resolution now more games end in a draw. My record shoul be 0 where it says draws.

NimzoRoy
Kingpatzer wrote:

basically, the number of exceptions are so low that FIDE has taken the stance that if you fall into one of those exceptions you screwed up earlier and can live with a draw.

NO actually FIDE abolished all exceptions because computers kept on coming up with new ones.

As far as "you screwed up earlier" if you fall into one of the exceptions thats wrong too.

PS: Sorry corph I was trying to be facetious not snide

royalbishop

Thanks for the link.

:

Draws

Occasionally chess games do not end with a winner, but with a draw. There are 5 reasons why a chess game may end in a draw:

  • The position reaches a stalemate where it is one player’s turn to move, but his king is NOT in check and yet he does not have another legal move
  • The players may simply agree to a draw and stop playing
  • There are not enough pieces on the board to force a checkmate (example: a king and a bishop vs. a king)
  • A player declares a draw if the same exact position is repeated three times (though not necessarily three times in a row)
  • Fifty consecutive moves have been played where neither player has moved a pawn or captured a piece.
royalbishop
  • A player declares a draw if the same exact position is repeated three times (though not necessarily three times in a row)

.

This one which i did not ever hear of in my entire life. Man i should have 0 where it says draws. But it is my fault for checking how it is done here. Man when did these rules come into play and who created them?

royalbishop

I 2nd the motion.

BlueKnightShade
royalbishop wrote:
...
Fifty consecutive moves have been played where neither player has moved a pawn or captured a piece.

In that case the draw needs to be claimed by one of the players otherwise the game goes on.

Gil-Gandel
royalbishop wrote:

When i learned to play Chess it was the 21 move rule.

50 moves is like a life time. Even 21 is too much.

That's a "kiddy rule", like free money in Monopoly. When I was a schoolboy it was worse: 21 ply (10 1/2 moves). Even KQ v K is hard for beginners under that restriction.